New mobile phone laws

[OldFart]

I'd like to gather as much info as possible re the new mobile phone laws.
So far any shop i've been into agrees that its all a bit vague though.
The way to go seems to be to have a permanently wired system installed with dual mikes twin speakers and the phone sitting in a cradle as close to the steering as one can practicaly fit it.
Speed dial or voice activated so that your only pushing one button to make a call or recieve, although some of the advice thus far seems to suggest you should really only recieve on the move. If you need to make a call it seems you need to park up and turn the engine off.
Some grey areas need to be clarified then......CB's for example, cigarette plug phone adaptors is another....and headphones with face mic .....

If you've any ideas and/or suggestions for the different types of kit and prices, then lets have em please :)

[owen]

HI o/f i can't really help as i can only gelan the same as u, that only fully fitted handsfree kits are acceptable, i have spoken to a local place thats sells cb over the wkend and they couldn't help me about with cb,
as for the cigerette lighter adaptors, as far as i can tell they will be ok as long as the phone is mounted in a holder, clearly visable, don't want u hunting for it while driving, and has a speaker, and seperate mic,
so i guess that head sets are not gonna be leagal, which will make hand held cb also illegal

[owen]

as for prices a full kit for a fully fitted hands free kit new will cost you around £175, double that if u want it fitted for u

[OldFart]

Halfords are fitting them for under a £100.....

My local phone shop is fitting the approved Nokia fully fitted and integrated for £135.....thats the route we're going.
But I'm insisting the phone cradle mount is next to the dashboard console as near to the steering wheel as is practical.
One bit of info i gleaned this morning, is that some of the set ups offer the phone being answered automaticaly...say after three rings, no need to hunt for buttons in the dark and no distraction.....sounds good if it works.

[si_guru]

I think auto-answer is a Nokia phone setting isn't it? I've used it on my motorbike with a wire type handsfree. Trouble is, it's harder to ignore calls.....

[owen]

my old nokia (3330) was voice activated, so when on the hands free kit all i had to say is yeah into the mic
and it would answeror, if i was driving and coming up to a roundabout i could just say no, and it wouldn't answer, it would ring off

[owen]

the hands free kit i got was genuine nokia, and had the seperate car arial the lot

[OldFart]

Originally posted by si_guru
Trouble is, it's harder to ignore calls.....

I didnt think of that......hmmmmm..


Naw that'll be ok, anyone who has my mobile no is user friendly anyway :)

Good point though, .....if you were in the back with the mistress and the wife phoned :yikes:

[Sandy M.]

Ring Ring! Ring Ring!


Yes Yes! Yes Yes!

:behead:

you mean summat like that?

[OldFart]

Originally posted by Sandy M.
Ring Ring! Ring Ring!


Yes Yes! Yes Yes!

:behead:

you mean summat like that?


:D



Right..here's my new set up, Nokia phone, Nokia hands free car kit CARK128, it gives me auto answer, auto cut off, and speed dial . So to recive a call i do nowt cept keep me mitts on the steering wheel :yay:
It cuts off the radio, and turns it back on once the call has finished.
I've fitted it close to the steering wheel but in such a way that it does'nt obscure vision nor obstruct the steering.

£140 fitted free.

I trust that'll meet with Mr plods approval :hahaha:

[Saratoga]

As it seems unlikely that work will fit the handsfree kits to their trucks I will be of the point that if I am driving I do not answer the call, it is as simple as that.

There are plenty of places on the roads to pull over to take the call, and with motorways there are junctions. Hey, it's off the motorway and where I usually park it will be out of the way of other traffic too. It's not as if I'll intentionally block the road!

Of course, does that mean that coppers will also take this view as with phones with other drivers who for example, read maps or do other things while driving as well?

When back at work my own mobile will be on reject all calls, and I have voicemail. My works mobile will no doubt be set the same as well. If they want to turn around and say that the phone must always be switched on and next to me, then they will have to fit the kits.

Well, thats my bit.

[OldFart]

Originally posted by ltwt


When back at work my own mobile will be on reject all calls, and I have voicemail. My works mobile will no doubt be set the same as well. If they want to turn around and say that the phone must always be switched on and next to me, then they will have to fit the kits.

Well, thats my bit.

I think Health and Safety will have some influence there, companys will have a legal obligation to ensure their staff are safely equipped with the right set up when on company business.

[Saratoga]

Hmm, That'll be nice :) Getting them to fit full hands free kits to all the vehicles, which are trucks from 3.5t to 34t, some of these go out on self hire. It would be nice but I doubt it. I will be getting back to work at this rate when this comes in, ie 1st December.

We'll see. Thanks for HSE info :)

Cheers

[Highway_Star]

If I read the legal stuff right, then ANYTHING which takes the drivers attention off driving is an offence, that does include maps, fags, drinks etc. Mobile phones have been given an offence all of their own now. With the other stuff it's down to the officer and situation to determine if the driver was distracted. It's a pretty grey area that, where do you draw the line? Screaming kids in the back? Girl in a mini skirt on the pavement? Conversation with passenger? (Personally I think this can be more distracting than a telephone, as you make eye contact and gesticulate).

[timbott]

Originally posted by Highway_Star
(Personally I think this can be more distracting than a telephone, as you make eye contact and gesticulate).

I don't, I keep my eyes firmly on the road and hands on the wheel. I cringe when I see drivers turn to face a passenger whilst driving.:Cross:

I must admit, although I am a fan of any law to improve road safety, we can still legally fumble with a car radio/tape/CD system whilst driving and other less distracting things are made illegal.

As far as I'm concerned any activity apart from driving whilst behind the wheel is unwise.

cheers, Tim

[gaz]

Whilst its a £1,000 fine for car and van drivers its a £2,500 fine for HGV drivers caught using a mobile unless its hands free.

[timbott]

and after all these years the HGV's have been shouting 10-4 Rubber Duck into a hand held microphone:p

cheers, Tim

[mburton2]

Hmm...yet two-way radios are excempt from the law!?....

Have a look at Department for Transport (http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_025216.hcsp)

mburton2

[Bull_Bar_Cowboy]

Hello Chaps & Chapesses

I read this board a lot …. and the other LR related boards … but post very little. I like the friendly banter here … especially from OF, Stephen , Bob, Ash, Owen, and too many others to mention.

Yes, PMR (Professional Mobile Radio) is specifically excluded from the new law … however, a few members of plod are going off half cocked (as usual) and I have already been stopped whilst using a handheld PMR in my 90. After pointing out that the law did not come into effect until the 1st December and that there are specific exclusions ….. and yes, if you are sure of your facts then I will willingly except an notice of intended prosecution, … which I will follow through to the highest level … oh and could you give me the extn number of the Motor Policing Superintendent …. young plod promptly started to grovel, being most apologetic … so expect some grief during the Xmas period (which I entirely agree with !). My job involves the use of PMR but we also use PMR446 when in convoy or off road.

Anyway just for Old Fart … most of the facts are here

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_025216.hcsp


Kindest Regards

Ian

V8EFI 90 Truck Cab … with all the toys.

[mburton2]

Yes Bull_Bar_Cowboy, thats the same link I posted :yay:

I too use my PMR in my Landie...(OK, OK, Its a Freeloader :buck: ), and havnt been stopped......but it doesnt make much logic to me....

OK, so you dont have to dail a number, or even look at the radio to use it.....but its still a distraction.

I will continue to use my PMR untill I'm sure its not legal....then I may get an ear-bud for it, and have a blue-tooth headset attached to my other ear for my phone:goofylook

But it has to be said, its about time something was done about mobiles...the amount of people I see trying to navigate with the phone cradled in the shoulder, or trying to text/dial a number whilst driving is just silly.

mburton2

[mburton2]

Originally posted by Bull_Bar_Cowboy
Hello Chaps & Chapesses

.

Yes, PMR (Professional Mobile Radio) is specifically excluded from the new law …
Kindest Regards

Ian

V8EFI 90 Truck Cab … with all the toys.

Hmmm....isnt PMR PERSONAL Mobile Radio??.....Or Private.....cant remember which......but I dont *THINK* Its Professional.......:goofylook

[OldFart]

The highway dialing code

By Jonathan Duffy
BBC News Online



In three weeks a new law will come into force banning drivers from using mobile phones while at the wheel. Only it's not quite as straightforward as that...
Traffic police are going to have their work cut out come 1 December, when new laws come into effect clamping down on drivers using mobile phones.

A quarter of drivers who know about the law will ignore it, according to research by a mobile headset manufacturer, Jabra. The same survey found 40% of motorists were unaware of the new legislation, which is designed to promote safety on the road.

On top of that, among those that are aware, there is widespread confusion about what exactly is outlawed.

Initially, the government had sought a blanket ban on all drivers using mobiles. Then it seemed to opt for an exception that would allow factory-fitted hands-free sets.

The final legislation is more relaxed, but that has led to claims it is too confusing. So here, we answer 10 questions about what you will and will not be allowed to do while driving.

Motorists must already drive with due care and attention
New law will allow police to stop driver using a mobile, no matter how careful they are
Breaking the rules means a £30 on-the-spot fine or up to £1,000 in court


Drivers 'to break mobile ban'
Can I use my ordinary mobile handset?
"Hand-held" is the watchword in the new regulations. If you need to hold your mobile handset then you will be in breach of the new law and liable for a £30 on the spot fine.

What about hands-free kit?
Using hands-free equipment will not be an exception, if you still have to hold the mobile handset to dial a number or even just to press the "receive call" button when someone is ringing you.

So I have to get a factory fitted mobile?
No, a cradle that holds your mobile and is fixed to the dashboard will do the job. You will need a hands-free kit to continue the conversation, such as an earpiece and microphone or a Bluetooth headset. Interactive PDAs and navigation aids will also need cradles.

HOW TO MAKE SAFER CALLS
Keep calls short - do not argue or enter intense negotiations
Tell callers you are driving and may need to break off your conversation suddenly
Save any numbers you may need to a shortcut dial before starting your journey
Source: RAC
What if I cradle the phone on my shoulder?
Propping a mobile between your shoulder and chin will not be tolerated since you will still seen as holding the phone, albeit not with your hands.

What about texting?
Texting is also out, although it seems tapping out a text would be allowed if the phone remained fixed in a cradle. But this is likely to fall foul of the existing rules that you must drive with due care and attention.

So do I have to switch my phone off?
No. Phones can be left on in a car, but, unless you have hands-free kit, if you are driving when it rings you must ignore it or pull in and park safely before answering it.

What if I'm waiting at traffic lights?
You are still considered to be driving. The same goes for if you are stuck in a traffic jam. In really bad snarl ups, however, you would clearly not thought to be driving if your engine was turned off.


Bluetooth headsets do away with distracting wires
What about an emergency call?
There is an exemption for 999/112 calls to the emergency services where it is unsafe or impractical to stop.

I've got to use a phone for my job
Not good enough. You will still be liable for a penalty. If your boss has insisted you take calls while driving he or she could also be breaking the law.

Breaker, breaker... what about CB radio?
Curiously perhaps, two-way radio is not covered by the law, so it's not an offence to have a conversation while driving, using a hand-held CB radio microphone. Two-way radios that double up as mobiles will not be allowed, though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3251725.stm

[wildbillcoyote]

Below is what our company has distributed to all staff regarding phone law, might be of interest, sorry there is so much of it
WBC

1
Legislation on Mobile Phones and Driving
Frequently Asked Questions
In a new regulation due to come into force on 1 December 2003, it is a specific offence to use a hand-held
phone, or similar device, when driving. The penalty is a £30 fixed penalty or up to £1,000 on
conviction in court (£2,500 for drivers of goods vehicles, buses or coaches). Drivers still risk
prosecution (for failure to have proper control) if they use hands-free phones when driving.

Q1. What does the regulation say about hand-held phones?
The use of a hand-held phone or similar hand-held device while driving will be prohibited. A hand-held
device is something that "is or must be held at some point during the course of making or
receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function".
A device is "similar" to a mobile phone if it performs an interactive communication function by
transmitting and receiving data. Examples of interactive communication functions are sending and
receiving spoken or written messages, sending or receiving still or moving images and providing
access to the internet.
2-way radios are subject to special treatment under the regulations. See Q14 below regarding 2-way
radios for further information.

Q2. Is hands-free phone equipment allowed?
Provided that a phone can be operated without holding it, then hands-free equipment is not prohibited
by the new regulation.
And pushing buttons on a phone while it is in a cradle or on the steering wheel or handlebars of a
motorbike for example is not covered by the new offence, provided you don't hold the phone.
However, hands-free phones are also distracting and you still risk prosecution for failing to have
proper control of a vehicle under Regulation 104 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)
Regulations 1986 if you use a hands-free phone when driving. If there is an incident, the use of any
phone or similar device might justify charges of careless or dangerous driving.

Q3. What about texting/internet access/video phones?
The use of a mobile phone or similar device for any of these activities while driving is also prohibited
if the phone (or other device) has to be held in order to operate it.

Q4. Will drivers still be able to use navigation equipment or personal digital assistants (PDAs)
or other computer equipment that sends or receives data (which would include GPS
transmissions)?
Yes - providing that it is not a hand-held device. Use of devices other than mobile phones are only
prohibited if the device performs an interactive communication function by sending and receiving
data. If the device does not perform this type of function, you can use the device without breaching
the regulations.

Mobile Phones and Driving Frequently Asked Questions
2
But remember the warning in the Highway Code (Rule 128) that using in-vehicle systems can be
distracting. You must exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times.

Q5. Why are you not banning the use of hands-free mobile phones while driving?
Using any type of phone while driving is distracting.
Drivers should remember that the police can still use existing legislation (for failure to have proper
control) if a driver is distracted by a call on a hands-free phone. If there is an incident and the driver
is using any phone (hand-held or hands-free) or similar device, then there is a risk of prosecution for
careless or dangerous driving.
Q6. Will mobile phones have to be switched off in vehicles?
No. Passengers may want to use them. And drivers can use them when they are safely parked.

Q7. What if the phone rings when I'm driving?
Let it ring and return the call when safely parked. Better to switch to voicemail before starting.

Q8. Who do the new regulations apply to?
The new regulations apply to the drivers of all motor vehicles on the road, including cars,
motorcycles, goods vehicles, buses, coaches and taxis.
They also apply to anyone supervising a learner driver, while the learner driver is driving. Anyone
supervising a learner driver needs to be concentrating on what the driver is doing and should not be
using a mobile phone.
Q9. Do the new mobile phone regulations apply to cyclists?
No. However, the police have powers to deal with careless or dangerous cycling.

Q10. Can I use a hand-held mobile phone when stopped in a traffic jam?
The prohibition applies when driving. Driving includes times when stopped at traffic lights or during
other hold-ups that may occur during a typical journey when a vehicle can be expected to move off
after a short while.
In exceptional traffic jams, such as a lengthy stoppage on a motorway, it would be clear that someone
wasn't driving if the engine was off.
Q11. Are there any exemptions?
Yes. There is an exemption for calls to 999 (or 112) in genuine emergencies where it is unsafe or
impractical to stop. There is also an exemption for the use of 2-way radios (see Q14 below).

Mobile Phones and Driving Frequently Asked Questions
3

Q12. Will I be able to cradle a phone between my ear and shoulder?
No. The offence applies if a phone has to be "held" while making or receiving a call. Therefore you
should not hold a phone between your ear and shoulder - or anywhere else - when driving.

Q13. Are employers guilty of an offence if their employees use a hand-held phone while
driving?
The new regulations apply to "anyone who causes or permits any other person" to use a hand-held
mobile phone while driving.
The Department considers that employers would not be liable just because they supplied a telephone
or because they phoned an employee who was driving. However, employers would probably be liable
if they required their employees to use a hand-held phone while driving and might also be liable if
they failed to forbid employees to use such phones on company business.

Q14. Will 2-way radios be included in the new offence?
The use of 2-way radio equipment (unless the device can also be used as a phone) when driving is not
included in the new offence but remember there is still a risk of distraction and prosecution under
other powers.
If a device is a dual or multi purpose device that can be used both as a mobile phone and a 2-way
radio, the use of the device while driving or supervising a provisional licence holder is prohibited.
Use is prohibited whether the device is being used as a 2-way radio or as a mobile phone.

Q15. If you prohibit using mobile phones, then surely you'll have to stop people talking or
tuning the radio? What powers do the police have?
We have no such intentions. There are many potential distractions while driving and it remains the
driver's responsibility to drive safely at all times. Research shows that it is more distracting to talk on
a mobile phone than to have a conversation with a passenger who can see what is happening.

Q16. Is the offence endorsable?
No. The offence is subject to a £30 fixed penalty or maximum fine of £1000 for conviction in court
(maximum of £2,500 for drivers of goods vehicles or buses/coaches.
However, we do plan to increase the penalty for the new offence by making it subject to 3 penalty
points and a £60 fixed penalty. Primary legislation will be needed for this when a suitable
opportunity arises to amend Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. We do not have a
timetable for that yet.
Remember, in some circumstances, for example if there has been an accident, a prosecution for
careless or dangerous driving may be justified if a phone was in use at the time of the crash. The
penalties on conviction for such offences include heavy fines, endorsement, disqualification and, in
serious cases, imprisonment.

Mobile Phones and Driving Frequently Asked Questions
4

Q17. Where can I go for more information?
You should seek independent legal advice if you are in doubt as to whether any particular action is
prohibited by the regulations.

You may find the attached flowchart helpful. You may also like to see the letter we issued on 24 June
2003 on the results of consultation on our initial proposals for an offence of using a hand-held mobile
phone while driving at:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_508356.pdf
The legislation is available at http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032695.htm Look for
Statutory Instrument No 2695 - The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment)(No 4)
Regulations 2003.

[pep]

oldfart?you car kit is the proper job matey.i fit car kits for a living all over uk,we work for a few major haulage firms and distribution places,
to be within the law the kit must be pysicaly fitted to the car ,must be physicaly wired to the cars electrical system and there must be no part of the phone or kit in contact with the user.
so the new bluetooth fone kits are a no no.sorry

[g7jtk]

So you can't just hold it to your head withe an elastic band then.

[si_guru]

Get this - It is NOT ILLEGAL to pretend to talk into a toy phone.... :snarl:

[timbott]

Originally posted by si_guru
It is NOT ILLEGAL to pretend to talk into a toy phone:snarl:

Or even listen to the Radio:icecube:

I only listen to R4 and refuse to have the radio on when driving as I get too involved with the radio.

I have also read this week that the holding of a phone isn't the prob, it is the coversation taking place that is the prob in that the drivers concentration ain't on the job.

I can fully believe that, I'm sure drivers of train, ship, planes, helicopters and stuff would never get away with it:Cross: :Cross: :Cross:

Oh hell don't get on your soapbox tonight tim - pampered drivers - one of my pet subjects:p

cheers, Tim