Lake District National Park

[Time Bandit]

Just been looking at the local Border News on Teletext and there is a piece saying that the Lake District National Park people are considering applying for a blanket ban for all vehicles from all green lanes, Byways UCR's etc apparently it is to make it more tranquil for other people (ie The Red Sock Brigade....oops I meant the Ramblers), I have tried the Border website and the websites for the local rags etc but can't find anything else on it so far.

I imagine if they manage to do this up here it would have a devistating knock on effect elsewhere as I presume other areas might decide to give it a go also.

[timbott]

Time Bandit

Thanks for the warning, this needs to be watched very closely.

I sometimes wish I was a Rights of Way officer as I probably enjoy walking more than greenlaning but I will strongly support the latter.

cheers, Tim

[Lighting90]

I think you might hate been a rights of way officer, as from what I have heard, about what has been happening in the Yorkshire Dales, the rights of way officer is a keen green lanner but his bosses, are the ones who decided to close them, and he has to enforce it, even if it means he doesn't get to do his hooby too....

So if they are wanting to make it more tranquil, why are they not banning tourists ????

[laalmarra]

Originally posted by Time Bandit
I have tried the Border website and the websites for the local rags etc but can't find anything else on it so far.




Found this link to the LDNPA website

http://www.lake-district.gov.uk/a/index.cfm?header_id=1&menu_id=0008B89D-DA4F-1E02-A38C6088C1C3D03E&submenu_id=00001974-638C-1DDA-A38C6088C1C3D03E&sublink=true

Trawling throught the site makes for interesting if not encouraging reading

I think this thread might run for a while.

Ah well at least I've got dave mitchells place just down the road.

[Time Bandit]

This is what the Evening News & Star had to say about it...

Evening News Article (http://www.news-and-star.co.uk/viewarticle.asp?id=28475)

[Lighting90]

next farmers will be banned from using machines of any sort because of the damage and distruction they are doing to the wildlife in the national park... :goofylook

[OldFart]

Thanks for the link TM.

Quote :-

LAKES CRACKDOWN ON OFF-ROAD DRIVERS
Published in The News and Star on 18/08/2003




By Ross Brewster

NATIONAL Park plans to ban off-road drivers from Lake District tracks have been branded a betrayal by a motoring organisation.

The Land Access and Recreation Association (Lara) says the proposals go against the spirit of a self-regulation partnership set up between off-road groups and the authority.

The national park claims the plans are not set in stone and says it has not banned any activity.

But its draft management plan, which has to go before the Government before it is passed, says recreational motor vehicles must be “prohibited” from driving on green lanes.

It says this will help stop erosion and stop the disturbance of wildlife.

The breakdown in relations could mean the end of The Hierarchy of Trail Routes scheme, the self-regulation partnership to monitor off-road motoring,

Lara spokesman Geoff Wilson, who is chairman of the Hierarchy of Trail Routes, said: “It doesn’t add up. Recreational vehicle users have successfully worked with the Park Authority to effectively manage use.

“They cannot be expected to continue doing so while the authority seeks to ban them.

“Such a policy is intimidating and conflict creating.”

He said the authority had not conducted any “objective analysis”.

“It is policy dictated by prejudice and not facts, and no one is safe from it,” he said. “Water skiers and power boaters were the first to be hounded out of the national park.

“That was by selfish groups and individuals who want the park only to themselves.”

Emma Dewhurst, National Park communications director, said off-road driving was a problem.

She claimed the partnership had enjoyed some success but there were still serious problems with erosion, irresponsible drivers.

She also said regular complaints were received about inappropriate vehicles on popular tracks and noise levels.

[Lighting90]

Originally posted by OldFart
She also said regular complaints were received about inappropriate vehicles on popular tracks and noise levels.

Well that is okay then as a Landie must be appropriate vehicle for use on a track. Must be all those townies using there xcorts that are causing the problem...
:p

[Hill Billy]

Lightening90,
u mentioned above that they would be banning farmers from using machinery in the national park to prevent damage being caused. U think ur jesting? Harvesting on our farm is always caotic and tiring, ,but this year we had the council on our back because we were working in one of fields at 4pm on a sunday afternoon and some poor person couldn't have their afternoon kip cause we were making too much noise withour tractor and combine.........so the council were called by this person to stop us, and they did apperently it was against some noise pollution rule....... all i could say is *What a lot of BOLL**Ks!!* It is only one day a year we are there with it and they kicked up hell of a fuss, just a shame that field required a large application of some nice smelly FYM 2 days later in some lovely hot sunshine!

Why is everybody so adverse to noise and machinery all of a sudden............all i can say for the lake district issue is what about all the noisy toursit car's and caravan's banging down the roads....and ramblers yacking away to each other and on their mobiles surely this is disturbing the wild life????

I makes my blood boil al this absolute rubbish politics, just let us be!!!

RIP MIke:Cross:

[Lighting90]

I do know what you mean about townies that move out to the countryside, (sorry for any offense out there..) do complain a lot these days about farming practices. It is a pity so many people have lost sight of the fact that farming is still so weather dependant, and not a Monday to Friday 9 - 5 job.
If I could afford, I would be living out in the countryside, in a nice cottage next to a farm, instead of a town. Then instead of complaining about the noise, I would be shouting, need a hand to help get finished. :p

(expert power harrower, tractor driver, combine driver, and oil fired grain drier user. )

Could always have a drive with the combine around the local roads one early morning rush hour to get a little revenge. :buck:

[Newsreader]

Hill Billy and Lighting, I couldn't agree more (as a townie who's moved to the country:goofylook ) it's unbelievable that some twaddlehead can actually make a successful complaint about a combine going on a Sunday, the world's gone mad it really has.

Up here the farmers are taking good advantage of the weather, one told us he's nearly done where normally he'd still be at it in September. Out driving last night, saw loads of machinery still going at 10.30 - 11.00, under lights. as you say Lighting it's not a 9-5 job.

It seems as a nation we just want to turn the countryside into a big playground and if you live there you should be selling ice creams and doing pony rides, instead of actually producing food... bonkers.

[graham]

In the Westmoreland Gazette Aug 29th.
The lake district authority has proposed a blanket ban on driving on greenb lanes, unsealed roads and byways in the latest draft of its management plan.

i will be writing to the papers editor which is based in Kendal and i hope more of you will do the same, if we don't we will end up going the same way as the motor boats on Windermere.
I think to many tree huggers get onto these commities they are against anything with engines.

PS . I have pointed out before that my wife is disabled we were both keen fell walkers, this is the only way my wife can get up onto the fells.
I agree that there should be regulations and a code of practice but a total ban is unfair to the ones that use care.

To contact the Westmoreland Gazette use www.thisisthelakedistrict.co.uk click on news & scroll down to lakes green lane ban, click on reply to......

[Hubber]

i agree with you graham however i think that unless we take some positive action we will eventually loose all access to these routes.
i think one way would be to try to get the powers that be to fully address the situation in a way that would be suitable to everyone or at least to many.
i fully understand the feeling that the tree huggers have about powered objects going on lanes etc, and i think in the long run we could loose that access.
one way in which we could deferr that decision would be to try to come up with ways in which we can put back into the countryside more that we take away.
one way could be offering to pay a levy, almost like a permit situation whereby you apply to the local body of whatever lane you wish to travel and pay your money and get your permit. almost the same as when i go fishing i need to get a permit, which goes towards the upkeep of the river etc.
i know lots of people will be against paying any money and even allowing a permit system to come into force. i think however as time goes on we will loose the argument and get nothing.
i'm sure if we put our heads together there will be other ideas, which is what we need rather than just complaining that we loose access.

[graham]

I read in one of the Land Rover mags that in Dorset the local road contractors maintained green lanes free, they use the road toppings to fill in the ruts using a 360 digger, this is cheaper than the contractor paying tipping fees.
Yes i would pay a liecense fee to drive green lanes.

[Teflon]

Hello, new member here - I useually lurk on the LRO forum.
Any way, we have been following the issue over there on our Green-Lane Forum. We have had a lot of input from the variouse mags, and LARA.

Now there is a meeting of the LPA 25/11/03, and LARA have stated that they would appreciate a 'good public turn out' in peaceful support of thier rep, Geoff Wilson who will be putting LARAs arguments against thier management plan at the meeting.

Details are at:- "Lakes Laning Ban - Action 25/11/03" (http://threads.lro.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=forum&Number=284295&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5)

If you would like to sign up to give your support.

This thread also links to the original debate on the LRO 'Green Lane Forum', if any-one is interested in what we have gleaned on the issue.

Many thanks, Hope to see you all in Kendal in November

[OldFart]

Thanks for the links Teflon and the update on the situation.
I'd certainly like to attend the public meeting, but it would be as an individual and not as a member of a larger group.
Whilst we all remember the mass tresspass that the Ramblers did, I think its too soon to even consider any type of similiar action by 4x4 users.
In short i'm optimistic that compromises will eventually prevail and in the meantime will try to keep an open mind for all related issues :)

[Teflon]

Thanks,
I think that's exactly what is being sought. I've posted to give everyone opportunity to attend the meeting, if they so wish.
Neither I nor LARA are actively encouraging or instigating any form of 'Rally', but if plenty of concerned individuals do turn out, then that will help LARA's case.
I merely intend to give LARA an idea of the numbers of people who have expressed seriouse enthusiasm for attending the meeting, so that they might have some idea of what kind of turn out to expect, and can manage thier publicity machine accordingly.
Other than that, just post any advice or guidance LARA can offer.
Note that they have suggested that 'business suits' in auditorium are more likely to be asked for thier questions. I'm sure when the issue has gone to press there will be a lot more interest and LARA will supply more advice, closer to the time. But hears your 'head up' folks, if you need to make arrangements to get thier like book time off work, or organise a lift with some-one elce who is attending (Car Sharing, is much more enviromentally freindly, etc), nows your opportunity.
Thanks again.

[OldFart]

Blue suit ?

Yeh well i've got one somewhere, and maybe could dig a bowler out too :p

But i've really got 4 hats to wear at this meeting, Firstly as a mountaineer, secondly as a 4X4 user, thirdly as a mountain biker, and last but by no means least a devout supporter of countryside conservation. :)

[Otter]

Hi Folks,

Just been following a thread in the Greenlanes Section on LRO. Has anybody else had any info on LARA withdrawing support for the Hierarch of Trails??

[Teflon]

Update on situation:-

LDNPA have conveniently removed the proposed greenlaning ban from the agenda for the 25th November Meeting, it will now get discussed at a meeting 20th February.

Check LRO Readers forum for details. LARA still need your syupport. Thank you.

Lakes Laning Ban Notices (http://threads.lro.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=forum&Number=284295&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=all)

I have a new web-site too, if any-one is interested:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/williams73/lrosig.gif (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/williams73/LRHome.htm)

[OldFart]

Thanks again for the update Teflon :)

[graham]

Hi, i contacted by email an active member of the ramblers to put this to them.
My wife is disabled, we were both keen fell walkers untill she was taken ill, we can now get onto the fells again using geen lanes.
A total ban on green lanes would stop the enjoyment of disabled getting onto the fells, i asked them to think about this and how they might feel.
The reply. We do think about disabled people lots of them have learning disabilities, and cannot walk these lanes because of vehicles on them. Next statement. It sticks in our craw that people hide behind disabled badges to justify driving green lanes.

WHAT KIND OF MENTALITY DO THESE RAMBLERS HAVE.

THE LAKES ARE THERE FOR THE ENJOYMENT OF ALL. Not just for the able bodied ramblers who will walk over anyone who dares to mess with their footpaths and lanes.
Just a note: mountain bikers are loved by ramblers at the moment
becase they are fighting the ramblers cause, but watch out when they get rid of us, your next.

The friends of the lakes latest. sailing boats on the lakes will be banned from using bright sails, all boats will now have to use light grey.

What is going on up there have they all gone mad.

[Teflon]

Well if you want to look at some Ramblers Rambling on (http://www.ramblers.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=671) click the link, that's thier forum, and there are a few fifth columnists amongst the forum members, myself included.

If you enter the debate, you'll find that some of them follow the party line, a lot are pretty apathetic on the issue, but quite a few dont see what the issue is!

If you get a response from comittee level though, and there's one published over on the LROi forum somewhere, the organisations official response is that we are basically a bunch of louts that shouldn't be let loose in our own garden's let a lone the country side, and the countryside should be preserved in some sort of Capability Brown / Cunstable Landscape fantacy of the mid eighteenth century, for the enjoyment of those who 'apreciate it'. On foot.

But, give them credit, no matter how opposed we might be to thier views, thier campaign programmes have been VERY effective, and GLASS and LARA have a lot to learn from 'the opposition', as far as getting their own way is concerned.

But ultimately, in these modern times of political correctness and enviromental responsibility, we shall always be playing off the back foot, simply becouse we burn fossil fuel and utilise a bit of technology!

Check out their form, any way, despite their guiding lights, there are a few reasonable people over there!

[Spacemutt]

lol, and I've just posted a topic linking to this forum!!! :D

[OldFart]

Originally posted by stephen cobby
lol, and I've just posted a topic linking to this forum!!! :D

Was that wise :dunno1:

[Spacemutt]

I think so as it shows just how few people in the RA want a ban on 4x4s. Most of them don't have a problem with us. The link has been on most of the other Land Rover forums and there have been some excelent posts as a result, and a lot of the ramblers didn't know how little access we have to tracks until Land Rover owners pointed it out. :)

[OldFart]

Yeh but there's Ramblers and there's Hillwalkers, the first is political the second is not.....

Ach well i'll just get my big boots on then :D