2010 Football World Cup Expedition

[Marc Lurie]

Following a brilliant suggestion by Sir Lostalot in another thread, I've started this thread to deal with the issue at hand.

The 2010 Football World Cup will be held in South Africa. Sir Lostalot suggested that a Landrover expedition into Africa, culminating in a World Cup trip would be a great idea.

So far (well, it's only been two days:D ), three forum members have shown an interest (in principle). They are:

Me (South Africa)
El Stiemo (Namibia)
Sir Lostalot (Hong Kong)

The first thoughts that Frank (El Stiemo) and I both had was that it would probably be better to start an expedition in Kenya or Tanzania. This would enable the die-hard LR guys to drive from the UK to the start of the expedition, but also allow people with tighter budgets (and the less gung-ho amongst us) to fly to the start of the expedition and hitch a lift with the Landies that make it to the starting point.

Several Southern Africans would drive up to the start of the expedition, and meet the UK guys. The expedition would then make its way from East Africa to South Africa, possibly via Tanzania, Malawi, and Mozambique, taking in all sorts of adventure along the way. Of course, people could always fly to South Africa, join the Africans for the trip up to the expedition starting point, and then come back down again to the World Cup. For a trip like this we would tke a different route there and back. We might go SA, Botswana (perhaps Zimbabwe), Zambia, Tanzania, Kenya on the way up.

We've got 3 1/2 years to plan this, but I'd like to get the ball rolling, and make this a really succesful expedition. I'd love to get Kingsley Holgate (http://www.kingsleyholgate.co.za) involved in something like this too. I haven't spoken to him yet, but I will do so soon. I'd also like to get Land Rover South Africa to buy into this in some way. I will be talking with them when plans firm up a bit.

Please use this thread to post your thoughts on the expedition. Any suggestions will be very much appreciated.

If any of you have any sponsorship ideas, or promotional ideas, please let's hear them.

Here's an opportunity for forum members to get involved in an amazing adveture of a lifetime.

More soon...

Marc

[El Stiemo]

Like Marc says above.

While it is possible to drive across North Africa, the usual time constraints of everybody are one of the reasons why I also think it is a good idea to start in East Africa.

Those die - hards that want to go it all the way can drive there and then down on the "general group" route.

Shipping the vehicles out from South Africa (Durban or Cape Town Harbour) should not be too much of a problem.

I would like to suggest that we get a car rental company involved though (I know of one that rents out Defenders and is well represented in a number of African countries) so that some might rent a vehicle for the duration of the trip instead of shipping their own vehicle.

A planned route could even include a less demanding option where a Defender is not a necessity, and could be done in a Disco or even a Freelander.

I can assist on the touristic side (if required) as I work in tourism and we have experience of this type of "guided self drive tours".

It might be agood idea to establish interest first and then, let us say from a basis of 10 vehicles on, or however many, start making more concrete plans.

It would be a privilege to be able to join forces with Kingsley Holgate, especially as he has the "pull" as far as publicity and therefore sponsorship is concerned.

Who might be interested?

[El Stiemo]

I'd just like to add that I am certain that at least three vehicles will go from our side, meaning first to East Africa and back down and I can guarantee that interest without having to speak to the owners. With a little publicity from this side, we might get a lot more.

[El Stiemo]

and the less gung-ho amongst us

Marc

Please explain

:D

[Marc Lurie]

I'd just like to add that I am certain that at least three vehicles will go from our side, meaning first to East Africa and back down and I can guarantee that interest without having to speak to the owners. With a little publicity from this side, we might get a lot more.

Is that 3 from Namibia Frank? I would reckon that 10 to 12 vehicles would be about the biggest size group that can be reasonably handled. Just getting 12 expedition vehicles through a border post will be good fun... :rolleyes: I'm sure that I can get at least 4 or 5 people from SA, probably more.

Using the rental company is also a good idea. Which company is it Frank?

When shipping a vehicle, do they get containerised? How many Defenders can fit into a container? Does anyone on the forum have any contacts with a shipping line?

For the guys who think they might bring in a vehicle, and then sell it in SA, please note that it is virtually impossible to permanently import a used vehicle (unless it's a collectors item) into South Africa uness the original owner is also permanently immigrating here. Selling a foreign registered, used vehicle is much easier in Zimbabwe, Zambia, and East Africa. (I'm not sure about Namibia, but I suspect it's the same as SA)

I'll start thinking about potential routes, and post them here.

Marc

[Marc Lurie]

Please explain

:D
I reckon you've got to a bit gung-ho to attempt a UK to SA cross country trip at the moment. Sudan and Somalia are no-goes in the East, and CAR and Congo are very dicey the other way down. It can be done, but I'm not sure if I have the "cajones" for it. Certainly not in one vehicle :eek:

[El Stiemo]

I was thinking of Britz, Marc.

Yes that is three vehicles from Nam. I also see a bit of a hassle with the border crossings and too many vehicles, but this might be spread up into different groups.

The guys that ship their cars to CPT or WBY usually container them - does anybody know whether two 110 defenders fit inside a standard shipping container?

Selling your vehicle here will be difficult without you taking up residence in Namibia. Our government has caught on to the idea that they don't want to be the dumping ground of other nation's used stuff. I wonder why that is. :(

I would plan approx 8 days to get up to Dar Es Salaam from Windhoek, rough estimate, all tar and pushing on without sight seeing en route. 15 days scenic. Friends of mine did Windhoek - Nairobi - Windhoek a couple of years ago and that was eight weeks, scenic obviously. Last time we went through to northern Moz, we took eight days to get there but that was with delays and scenic stopover along Lake Malawi.

So with eight days up and maybe three to four weeks down, that makes it five weeks max and that is the most that I can possibly be away from the office. What trip duration have you had in mind Marc (dep on route of course)?

Cheers Frank

[El Stiemo]

see www.africa-is-calling.com (http://www.africa-is-calling.com) to get info on another trip that some friends of mine did year before last from Luxembourg down here to Swakopmund. Two brothers, one truck.

[Marc Lurie]

Frank,

I've done the dash from Kampala to Johannesburg (roughly the same as Nairobi to Johannesburg) in 7 days solid solo driving through Uganda, Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, SA.

I've done Johannesburg to Arusha in 6 days (about the same as Johannesburg to Dar-es-Salaam.) and the return journey in 5 days. But that's just solid driving while it's light, sleeping while it's dark and it's not pleasant.

4 to 5 weeks sounds about right for the trip. I'd be more keen on a 4 week trip due to work etc. But then, who knows what I'll be doing in 4 years time?

What about a theme for the expedition? I know it'll be a World Cup inspired event, so perhaps we could visit soccer stadiums along the way? Perhaps get a FIFA accreditation as some sort of Goodwill Mission and distribute football kit to small football clubs along the route? I'm just thinking aloud....

[El Stiemo]

I like the football idea and I like the Kingsley Holgate idea.

Could we combine them?

[Marc Lurie]

I don't think Kingsley plays fooball ;)

I'll talk with him about this. I know he is a sucker for humanitarian objectives in his expeditions, so it could dovetail well.

[El Stiemo]

Lets see what amount of interest we can generate from this.

In my personal experience, the last couple of our trips have gone something like this:

person: So... where are you going this year, Frank?
me: Angola / Mozambique / Zambia / wherever...
person: Cool! I'll come along!
me: Are you sure?
person: Yes, this time I' ll go with you guys!
me: OK. Because then we need to prepare for (insert number of vehicles, etc. here)
person: Yeah, sure, no problem.

(some months later, nearing departure)

person: I would love to go, but...

(insert witty excuse here)

Me: Bye, I am now off on my dream holiday even if it is just two people and one car.

I do not want to expand a lot of energy on this if there is going to be little or no interest or loads of interest but that is where it remains. I would suggest we draft a rough itinerary, based on gereal objectives and then set a deadline when the expedition participation will be considered.

I also suggest taking some form of deposit from people who "book" a seat which is forfeited in case of non - participation. I would also suggest limiting the amount of vehicles we take along, due to known issues of logistics in Africa.

If I am still alive and well in four years time I will go on such a trip.

It also needs to be considered that, even though we share a common love for all things Land Rover, some might not adapt so easily to four weeks of camping in the African bush. See snake threads. Maybe a preparation trip in only one country would be an idea?

I certainly do not want to kill off this great idea so soon after its inception, but I have been burned before and this was by people I knew personally.

Any suggestions?

[Marc Lurie]

I agree with your comments. A deposit or guarantee of some sort will have to be put up beforehand. There must be some way of doing this that will safeguard both the people organising, and the people participating.

I certainly don't want to profit from this sort of expedition, so my suggestion is that a deposit is paid by interested people that is then refunded to them when they join the expedition. If they don't pitch, they don't get the money back, and it gets spent on the expedition.

I also know the frustration of people who are adamant that they wish to come along, and then drop out at the last moment.

What's your idea for a preparation trip? Do you mean perhaps a short trip in say 2007 or 2008? Perhaps 10 days?

Give me a few days to toy with the itinrary/route idea. I need a quiet room, a few beers, and a lot of maps :D

[El Stiemo]

I agree Marc.

I do not want to profit from this either, but some connections in tourism might yield better rates for the Car rentals, etc. We will see.

The way we could work it with the deposits: We will need a per vehicle or communal fund anyways for fuel, camping fees, park entry, food, etc. The deposit gets paid into the "pot" at a certain time beforehand and if someone does not pitch, it contributes to the cost of the trip, thereby lowering the trip costs of everybody else. Any participants will still need to carry personal funds (souvenirs, activities, etc.) but if everybody makes a chip into the communal pot right at the start over the same amount, it usually makes everything a lot easier. Any left - overs from this pot are divided up between the participants after the trip.

My suggestion for a "intro" would be 2008, Johannesbug to Walvis Bay, two weeks tops. Could be done with rented cars or our private vehicles.
Sundowners on the Swakop Beachfront on me. It will be the middle of Winter however, so bring Jackets.:D

[Marc Lurie]

My suggestion for a "intro" would be 2008, Johannesbug to Walvis Bay, two weeks tops. Could be done with rented cars or our private vehicles.
Sundowners on the Swakop Beachfront on me. It will be the middle of Winter however, so bring Jackets.:D

Good plan Frank. It could be Jo'burg, Upington, Pela, Aughrabies, Onseepkans, Fish River Canyon, Luderitz, Namib Naukluft, Walvis, Swakopmund, then Windhoek, through Botswana and back to Jo'burg. Nice trip.

[El Stiemo]

Good plan Frank. It could be Jo'burg, Upington, Pela, Aughrabies, Onseepkans, Fish River Canyon, Luderitz, Namib Naukluft, Walvis, Swakopmund, then Windhoek, through Botswana and back to Jo'burg. Nice trip.

Yes something along those lines.

It should be possible in two weeks and there will be sufficient chance for camping in the bush to sort out those that would not enjoy a five week camping trip. However, participation in such an "intro" would have to be voluntary I think, though this still might leave you with people on the full one that have not yet been camping, at least not outside a campsite.

Mind you, depending on the route all that much camping might not even be necessary, it could be kept down to a minimum by using Lodges, but then upping cost. How is this situation up in East Africa? I heard their Lodges are ridiculously expensive.

I think we first need to agree on a general route and then take it from there. I will be on a three day training course from tomorrow morning (first aid) but will check in in the evenings.

Cheers Frank

[JamesF]

Hey guys,

Great idea for the 2010 world cup. I'd love to have a go at the East coast but after last years trip I'm pretty skint! Shame I didn't get to meet either of you last year.

Shipping wise I shipped into Durban (form Ghana) and out of Cape Town back to Tilbury (UK). You can get two Defender 110's in a 40 foot container or three 90's. 20 foot containers take one of each. If anyone wants details of the agents let me know and I'll dig them out. From memory Cape Town to Tilbury all in (including agents fees) was about 1,800 GBP.

Good luck with the plans, if my situation changes or if I win the lottery I'll drop you a line.

If anyone from the UK needs an expedition prepped 110 mine is up for sale. Details here: womblingafrica.blogspot.com

Cheers,

James

[Sir Lostalot]

Barring death or *dismemberment, you have my full support and commitment. I have made a decision to go and thats final ....besides SWMBO said I could;)
:beers:

Once we have a reasonable rough itinerary the general cost will be known, we can discuss deposits and such then. mind you in 3or4 years there can be a lot of change in Africa so we'll need a lot flexibility in the initial planning.

A test run is a good idea at the very least we will have created a larger group of experienced leaders for the main event.

I do find it a pity that only 10-12 vehicles will be considered manageable but defer to your experience of course.




*Only refers to the dismemberment of certain floppy bits, arms and legs I can do without....well mostly do without.

[Marc Lurie]

I do find it a pity that only 10-12 vehicles will be considered manageable but defer to your experience of course.

Hmmm. The main problem is that 12 vehicles will probably mean around 20 people or more. Several of the border crossings will be quite difficult to manage with a larger group.

The main Mozambique borders for example
a) require that each passport holder must report in person to the immigrating officer. Getting 20 people through immigration can take around 1.5 hours, but usually a bit quicker, depending on the time of year
b) Each vehicle will have to purchase accident insurance (that takes about 20 minutes per vehicle)
c) Each vehicle must then be searched by customs (another 20 minutes per vehicle if we're lucky)

If there are 12 vehicles we could very well be looking at 6 to 8 hours to cross a border and that's only one side of the border :eek: You still have to get out of the country that you're leaving to get into Mozambique. :D

There are other considerations with larger numbers of vehicles such as fuel supplies. It is quite possible that 12 vehicles will practically exhaust the diesel supplies of a whole small town. :rolleyes:

However, I don't want to be too prescriptive. If there are enough people interested, then plans can be made to get around these problems.

[El Stiemo]

It's like Marc says.

If Interest is really much larger than 12 vehicles, there are ways we can get around those problems (like splitting up the groups and going through several different border post for example but please remember that border posts might be hundreds of kilometers apart from each other). 12 vehicles would probably be the largest manageable group. If more come, we would probably need to split up into several groups.

But I think we can worry about that when it comes to the point that there will be more than 12 vehicles along.

Some basic principles that we should agree on first I think.

I think it would be a good idea if all participants could be reasonably medically fit. This will be quite a challenging trip, especially with camping in Africa, difference in altitude, food, etc.

I think it would also be a good idea to agree right from the start on a participation basis. This means that everybody shares in the camp chores, eg. cooking, dishes, setting up camp, etc. As a team, we should work together, there are no "masters" to be served by other group members who do not lend a hand.

I am not sure whether small children / infants are a good idea. Marc, What do you think?

Vehicles are to be specced to a certain minimum level, i.e. every vehicle should carry a water supply, fire extinguisher, spare tyre (2?), basic toolkit, first aid box. Also spares that are specific for this vehicle type. What I mean by this: We should be able to organise a certain spare stock that we take along for Defender for example, but if you have the only Series III on this tour then it could be your obligation to carry a leaf spring (just an example).

What do you guys think?

Cheers Frank

[K&S]

Funnily enough I was thinking on similar lines to you guys, but my train of thought was more to getting a group of landies together ( and doing a tour to the different match destinations with great places to visit in between), this being more in the line of having passengers rather than drivers. Not as much fun for the passengers, granted, but less involved than importing landies.

[Marc Lurie]

Hi Kevin,

Well, it's early days still, and there are no plans yet. Any input you have, or any ideas will be much appreciated. Perhaps a trip like you have in mind is a better alternative, or even a separate trip that can be done after the guys get to SA.

I don't think we even know what the WC intinerary is yet. Where are the game venues? Do they even exist yet?

Marc

[Marc Lurie]

Mind you, depending on the route all that much camping might not even be necessary, it could be kept down to a minimum by using Lodges, but then upping cost. How is this situation up in East Africa? I heard their Lodges are ridiculously expensive.

"European" style lodges in East Africa are generally highly luxurious and VERY expensive, but the local hotels and lodges in East Africa can be very affordable, and might even prove to be somewhat of a novelty attraction to visitors who want to experience the "real Africa" not the sanitised version you get in a 5-star lodge.

I've stayed in many local lodges (prices start at around $3 up to about $30) and they're always clean but sparse. If there is a disco at the lodge, then it will be pumping until late, especially on weekends. I have never had a minutes trouble staying at local hotels and lodges anywhere in Tanzania, Mozambique, Uganda, and Malawi and I've generally found the locals unbelievably friendly.

The other budget option is to stay in lodges run by church groups. There is always a Baptist, or Catholic, or Lutheran or whatever lodge around most towns, and they offer good accomodation at affordable rates too. The only problem with the Baptists is that they don't like alcohol on the premises.

I've attached two pics of lodges (motels really) in Uganda that are fairly typical of the places available. I've usually been travelling alone, so camping has been out of the question. Also, it is often a problem to find camping spots, but with 12 vehicles, I think that will be less of a problem. We can always strike a deal with a local chief to camp for the night, especially in Mozambique.

[K&S]

I think camping in the village is great. Will give some income to the poorest of the poor and is still a very real part of Africa.

[Marc Lurie]

I think camping in the village is great. Will give some income to the poorest of the poor and is still a very real part of Africa.

I wouldn't do it with just one or two vehicles because you tend to get swamped by locals who will stand around ALL day (and late into the night just looking at you. It's quite annoying because there's constant noise and always the possibility of theft. With more vehicles it's much easier.

It is a taste of the continent though :D

[K&S]

always the possibility of theft. With more vehicles it's much easier.

It is a taste of the continent though :D

Agree 100% with that.