Paying for laning?

[Cannonball Bob]

OK, first things first, I really don't want this to turn in to a flame war as it involves a Club who's members sometimes frequent this forum as well as others, but I'm keen to get an independent feel for something, just to confirm whether I'm missing the point or not....

Situation:
A local section of a Club has a nominal fee of £x for any activity it plans amongst it's members.
This fee has been agreed and voted for by all members of said local section and is used to fund subsequent local section events, or to cover overheads such as printing costs (?) of road books, purchase of OS maps and the like.
The same local section then plan a day's laning, but offer it open to the rest of the Club in it's entirity via a mention on the Club website but still expect visiting members to pay the £x fee, a fee to which those visiting members never agreed to the implimentation of and from which they, as an occasional visitor, may never truly benefit. Bear in mind also, that the aformentioned "visiting member" may well be from an adjacent section which does not charge for laning days at which ANY member could attend.
So, my question is this....

If you were part of a National club, and you attended a no-cost event such as a laning day ("no-cost" as in there are no entry fees to venues etc and the only overheads are personal incidentals such as maps and fuel) organised by a sub-section of that Club, would you expect to pay a fee agreed by and only for the benefit of that sub-section, bearing in mind members of that section are also at liberty to make use of other assets/activities which are provided free and voluntarily by other Club members in general?

I know there is a certain element if "If you don't like it don't go, that way you won't pay" but consider this, how welcome will those fee-charging sections be at an event planned by those who don't charge for their time? How much would you be encouraged to attend a club day if you were charged a fee where other similar days are free?

On this occasion the actual money changing hands didn't affect me, but I'm unimpressed by what it says about Club members and their concept of Clubmanship (and my renewal is due any day now), and their approach to welcoming members from elsewhere in the country.

In addition, does anyone know the actual legality of charging a fee (and not a voluntary donation) to take part in an event on the public highway, in relation to PLI and other complexities?

In closing, before anyone (from anywhere) accuses me of rumour-mongering and stirring up sentiment behind the Club's back, I raised this question directly with those involved and got told "This is our section, we decide what goes on, if you don't like it, stay away. It's none of your business" :(

Your thoughts?

[toppa]

I would have thought, and not sure so dont quote me, but if your paying to enter a event, ie lanning, dosnt that then become a "official event" and arnt the police supposed to be notified about it??? As a sporting event on a public highway???

Cheers

[andreadavide]

Just my 2 n-Euro cents worth:
In principle when there is a nationwide organisation, members of all chapters should enjoy the same treatment at home and where they are guests somewhere else.

However, if some chapter, either because they are short of volunteer work or because of local conditions, need a bit more of funding a SMALL, voluntary fee could be charged.

Andrea

[Dave Sumner]

If it an official event does that not need to be covered by public liability insurance etc? Could be entering a minefield here!!

Lanes are public highways so you can use them if you wish, of course following GLASS guidelines!

[jjsaul]

of course following GLASS guidelines!
you say that as if its a legal requirement....

[Hoodoo]

James,
I've just seen a can of worms go sailing past my window. I await the fall-out!!!!:D
Regards,

[manthing]

following the Glass Guidlines is a good idea but not legal.

i think thats what he ment.

[Paul Humphreys]

Following ANY guidlines is just that, guidelines. If driving anywhere then you should follow the highway code.

Paul

[manthing]

and in answer to the origonal question

T'wud put my back up to be asked to pay a fee as opposed to being asked to make a donation towards the Club funds, for driving on a public right of way..

Simlar thing but I usually make a donation when I have availed myself at a P&P event.

[Stephen]

I would have thought, and not sure so dont quote me, but if your paying to enter a event, ie lanning, dosnt that then become a "official event" and arnt the police supposed to be notified about it??? As a sporting event on a public highway???

Cheers

and invalidating most insurance policies

[despot69]

It always makes me smile that LRO etc always advertise green lane days and charge an arm and a leg?
Yet I can get a map and a few landy mates and do the same lane for nowt - and probably enjoy it more?
I agree about the donation bit but to actual pay a fee - sorry but bah humbug is my answer.

[Paul Humphreys]

and invalidating most insurance policies

I dont think so. It depends on your insurance. I think its only if its a competition type event. IE speed or timed events. My RRC insurance covers me for groups as it dose not involve them. If you did a treasure hunt in cars then that would meen no insurance cover?

On the title, I have done laning for the local club for free and for donations to raise money for the club or charities. For some its to much like hard work to pick up a map or dont know where they can go. But I would never ask for payment for doing this. I have and do take a lot of people out laning. My best way of getting someting out of them is to get them doing some laneclearing around dinner time. We just happen to come across a lane that needs doing as we are laning.

There are people/business out there that charge upto £145 per day for laning trips. Thats why there is a lot of big groups out laning. 10 cars X £145 = A good days pay.

Paul

[Saratoga]

you say that as if its a legal requirement....

Well, the Police follow ACPO guidelines, but they are not law either....

I am aware of your hostility towards GLASS so I won't provoke a war online here...

However, it is a national organisation that does have policy documents. You could always quote AWDC policy documents as well... :D :D :D

[Paul Humphreys]

I am aware of your hostility towards GLASS so I won't provoke a war online here...


I do not have any hostility towards GLASS as I am still a member of GLASS.

CRAG do have guide lines as well, but as I have said they are only guidelines and not law.

Paul

[redhand]

I do not have any hostility towards GLASS as I am still a member of GLASS.

CRAG do have guide lines as well, but as I have said they are only guidelines and not law.

Paul
Tut tut handbags at dawn or what!!!!!!!!

[Saratoga]

I do not have any hostility towards GLASS as I am still a member of GLASS.

I didn't say you did!

Guidelines and Policy Documents are the way of the world these days aren't they...

[Paul Humphreys]

Well, the Police follow ACPO guidelines, but they are not law either....

I am aware of your hostility towards GLASS so I won't provoke a war online here...

However, it is a national organisation that does have policy documents. You could always quote AWDC policy documents as well... :D :D :D

All I am going to say on this matter is read you other post again and then you tell me what you did or did not say? By the way its the middle bit.

Paul

[AJC]

Saratoga's comment I am aware of your hostility towards GLASS so I won't provoke a war online here...

was referring to James's comment

Originally Posted by jjsaul
you say that as if its a legal requirement....


not anything Paul Humphreys had said.

Read over, suck back one Paul and start again.;)

AJ

[Paul Humphreys]

Saratoga's comment

was referring to James's comment



not anything Paul Humphreys had said.

Read over, suck back one Paul and start again.;)

AJ

If it was towards James them I will withdraw my last post.
As I read it I through it was ment for me.

Paul

[jjsaul]

No it was aimed at me based on something i said to Saratoga on msn i think ;)

[Pete H]

No it was aimed at me based on something i said to Saratoga on msn i think ;)

So whats your problem(hostility) with GLASS James? or ????

[Stephen]

So whats your problem(hostility) with GLASS James? or ????

he's 7th top posting member on GLASS forum :D

[redhand]

It always makes me smile that LRO etc always advertise green lane days and charge an arm and a leg?
Yet I can get a map and a few landy mates and do the same lane for nowt - and probably enjoy it more?
I agree about the donation bit but to actual pay a fee - sorry but bah humbug is my answer.
yes but the lro days are for people who "don't do maps" and want the peace of mind of having ""experts""?? onhand to keep em safe. and they know before hand that a charge will be made. It seems to me if you turn up thinking it's free and someone tries to charge you then thats out of order but if it's advertised as a paying event then I don't see the problem. it's how simply 4x4 etc do it. and if it's organised as part of a national clubs event diary. Then national club policy should apply. but if a local branch is organising an event which doesn't follow national policy they should make this fact VERY clear when they advertise the event.

[Pete H]

he's 7th top posting member on GLASS forum :D

Really...?:eek: :D

Comon James,do you have a problem with GLASS?.

[toppa]

Really...?:eek: :D

Comon James,do you have a problem with GLASS?.

Unlees there is someone else out there in forum land using jjsaul as a log on name...

Cheers

[jjsaul]

Am i really 7th top posting member on there???

shows how little people must use it as i havnt been on for weeks and weeks.....

Pete, i just feel GLASS isn't quite making as much progress as it could be, or is possibly pushing in the wrong directions at times. Recently they havn't been doing themselves much good and although i am a member, unless they leave a good impression on me between now and the renewal date, i will not be renewing my membership.

[Cannonball Bob]

Whoa there!
Before this digresses any more thanks for the replies which, to be honest, confirmed what I suspected.
Must admit the legal side had already crossed my mind, although past experience says the membership of the aforementioned Club is a little short sighted in that area with a "Well I didn't know did I?" defence to most things.
Will be voicing my concerns at this year's AGM with more confidence now. Probably be burnt at the stake in return but hey....
Thanks.