Newspaper

[tdi200]

Guys, it seems you made it in the paper! look at the times of this sunday, on page 68, i belive thats last weekends meet you had.

Grem

[ford_focus_cmv]

I wrote some mails to that buffu, here are they. And still waiting for more.
Start from the bottom and go upwards. See ya guys

Don't worry,
My name is Christopher M Vassallo

We were talking about the selmun case and not computing literacy.

I wish that you will teach us what we were doing wrong to the clay slopes,
because that time no one came to explain anything to us,not as you claimed.
As I don't have a degree like you and I don't teach university LIKE you. I
don't think that my mail has to be published as I wrote to you to let you
know that not everyone knows about these damages.

Do you have any backup scientific research that you know of which is or was
carried out on selmun, to confirm the damage you are saying that we are
causing?.


No offence, but don't blame us if there is lack of information from the
authorities. And what is your comment about what the authorities were doing
on the fields?.

Now if you think to publish my mail, go on but put the police picture too as
you did with our photo (Zoom in to see the actual POLICE car.)

Thanks a lot for your interest.
regards

Christopher M Vassallo





----- Original Message -----
From: "ALAN DEIDUN" <alpra1@mail.global.net.mt (alpra1@mail.global.net.mt)>
To: "Chris" <cmv@onvol.net (cmv@onvol.net)>
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Administrative Law Enforcement unit of the police enjoying a
sunday drive


> Dear Anonymous,
> Next time, have the decency to sign your email with your name, as I do
> with all my articles! You should also learn how to properly use the email
> since you sent me the same email over 5 times!
>
> I thank you for calling me profs - do you hold a degree in biology or env
> science or do you teach these subjects at 6th Form or University as I do?
> From the type of damage you do on site, I know already the answers to
> these questions.
>
> Do you and your friends expect me to come and tell you the type of damage
> you are doing to the clay slopes at Selmun (the bare rock is now visible
> through erosion) throuhg your 'illegal' (repeat, illegal) activities?
>
> You say that there is nothing wrong with being in a place for everyone -
> hiking and walking yes, but not causing the damage you and your friends
> do. Don't worry - this email and my reply will be published in my next
> article.
>
> BR,
> Alan Deidun
> 71779M
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Chris" <cmv@onvol.net (cmv@onvol.net)>
> Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 19:05:37 +0200
>
>>hello profs,
>>
>>Think twice before going to conclusions on land rover people.
>>
>>It was a good article the one you wrote in the Sunday time today. If it
>>was the truth.
>>
>>See even the law (Administrative Law Enforcement unit of the police) is
>>with us!!!!!!!!, Know the facts well, before accusing people you don't
>>know of "political clout"
>>
>>We could solve this problem very gently if you talk to us directly and not
>>through the media, as well saying that you spoke to us and we were rude
>>"off-road-vehicle owners simply shrug their shoulders when told they are
>>causing soil erosion". We don't even know you, and no one that day when
>>the picture was taken, came to talk to us, so next time talk to the people
>>who were in the photo before saying ("off-road-vehicle owners simply shrug
>>their shoulders").
>>
>>The photo is of a 4x4 police truck doing worse then
>>us........................
>>
>>Thanks a lot.
>>
>>Regards
>>Just a driver from the photo!!!!!!!!!

[cil111]

hmm mate sorry to tell yo but it is not a good thing to hassle with such a guy...

he has a fortnighly article in the newspaper and sorry to say you have nothing...

and plus not exactly the right strategy to use.. u admitted defeat many when u asked him to tell you what damage you are doing...

if he puts the mail in the newspaper you will just be getting negative exposure not only for yourself but also for all the people who visit selmun...

and if he publishes the picture of the ALE in the newspaper you will have just started a war with the ALE especally since the ALE have not really started to persecute us...

I think that you have done more harm than good with this mail....The bloody deidun was waiting for somebody to answer halli jaghmel show bih...

[olo]

well i tried to keep my mail a bit less "aggressive"

here it goes....

Dear Sir,

I would like to point out some things that you have failed to note. You as an editor are claiming that damage done to such terrain in certain areas of Malta are done by each and every one of us who go out for a sunday drive to enjoy the day. As in every situation in life, there is good and bad, alot of people do have a code of ethic whilst surpassing such terrain. this code generally involves a vechile limit as to avoid as much as possible such damage as you're saying, judging terrain by sight, if it appears to be weak and will cause our wheels to spin we choose a different route. dont get me wrong here, we dont choose a different route only because we love the natural world our island is blessed with, but because we love our vechiles. the so claimed wheel spin that mainly damages the terrain also damages our vechile, if the wheel gains enough momentum, upon landing you are risking warping or snapping a half shaft or damaging differentials etc. so its not only for natures sake but also for our vechile's sake. i really do appriciate the article you have written, because me myself didn't know alot of stuff about such erosion, however i guess thats why you are specialised in one thing and me another.

I would also like to point out that blaming us people with "Land Rovers" is very unfair, main reason being is that if you hike there long enough with your camera you would have been able to spot Scrambler bike raids running across the terrain and Quad bikes (always mentioning civilian vechiles). my speculation as to why there are none in your photos is simply because us Land Rover owners usually stay stationary for some time enjoying the view and the atmosphere, were as vechiles mentioned here above just race across areas such as selmun just for the fun of it. whilst mentioning such light vechiles, i'd like to point out also that they exercise very limited safety regulations whilst surpassing such terrain (i.e. no helmets and nothing) i know that its not by law to wear a helmet on a Quad Bike (at least i believe its not) but on such terrain it would be a definative plus. I'd also like to point out however that the scrambler people do exercise alot of caution whilst on such terrain by equiping themselves with skid clothing and proper helmets. i would also like to point out that a Land Rover is least prone to cause damage as its heavy compared to such bikes, theirfore forces the tyres to keep constant traction on rough terrain.

Whilst reading your article i noticed you writing about the lack of presence by the ALE and other law enforcement agencies. well, shows you didn't stay long enough. If you would have looked up the hill on the right you would for sure have encountered some ALE vechile enjoying a sunday drive up in the farmer's fields (then Land Rovers get blamed for it), i've been disappointed simply because we keep a strict rule to stick to tracks, simply not to ruin a hard man's day (or even week) of work, then you find a Law Enforcement Vechile tramping through fields as if its got the right to. on numerous occassions too a number of Patrol Boats of the AFM can be spotted very close to the shore checking upon us.

My point is, instead of generalising that all damage is done by Land Rover Owners, why not specify? that its reckless people that damage such terrain? if its such a hazzard to the nature put sign posts up before the entrance to such areas notifying drivers about such damages that could be risked. Personally i felt hurt that i was generalised amongst those that just race over terrain recklessly after spending so much time (some times even taking much harder routes for this sake) on keeping the area as much as possible safe and leave it as it was. if its to be done in moderation i dont reckon that damage would really occur (please specify what really damages such tracks so we can discuss if going down in moderation is an option amongst such drivers). If all the areas are deemed risky, then please provide us at least with one legal area where we can go down and enjoy ourselves. people like me all they asking for is a nice sunday day out without causing damage, as regards to those that fancy racing? well they got the banger circuit in ta'qali if they really feel like such terrain! i feel that its unfair that we all get blamed when the minority are doin the damage. to me its like racism, blaming a Land Rover for doin all the damage, even though many others take part in it.

Looking forward to hear from you soon,

Edward Midolo

[olo]

i know its exegerated (like the wheel spin thingy, i doubt they teach them mechanical engineering for biology :p ), but hey, i just wanted to get the point across to him

[olo]

well dunno if i did right, (most probably not but anyway), comments plz :(

i wrote it in a way that its kinda a conversation rather then jumpin at him (for once :p )

[olo]

(damn no edit thingy)

well he just replied, he said he's thankfull for such an email and that he'll reply in detail tomorrow or tuesday

[nighthawk]

:eek:
Couldn't you have consulted with everyone before sending such mails???

Dunno what to say, but it's not looking at all good to me, especially if he's going to use your mails in his next article.

Why did noone mention sending a mail to him today?? Bloody hell.

[olo]

well, i spoke for myself, infact i didn't say i was with your group. so for all he cares i'm one of the other many. thats how i see it at least

[Autokaci]

I'm sorry to say, that although this Deidun ****es me off one helluvalot, with writing such letters to him you are even more provoking him to do all possible to stop us going to Selmun. Let him write...and we keep quiet. Before this ******* there was another one, Paul Borg, who was constantly bragging about the god damn clay hills in Selmun...we let him write and what happened....he finally stopped without anything being done from authorities. And the same should have been done to Deidun, but you have now screwed up the "silence is golden" theory! And for this I must personally tell you..."THANK YOU!!!!":(

From his ID card number it shows that this Deidun is only 26 years old, so surely he does not know how Selmun was before...when the salt pans were still operative, when all the fields where full of wheat and hay. In fact the road we use to go down was the only road present for the salt workers to use and it used to end near the now collapsing rooms just before going down near the saltpans. I remember that road was so bad that it used to be constanly surfaced with 'zrar' (crushed stones) so that the old Bedford trucks could drive down and up. So much so that this road was and still is shown in the map as a lane, so I am to believe that since it is shown on the map then it could be used to drive down and up till the above mentioned rooms! Going down onto the salt pans is a different story, even though long neglected, they are very old salt pans and we are breaking them down with reckless driving. I, for one, am very cautious about this and throughout all the years (more than 30 years) that I have visited Selmun, either on foot, bicycle or with my Land Rovers, I have never yet broken any part of the salt pans, though I must admit that some tyre marks I must surely have left!

This Deidun is constanly bragging on the clay hills erosion with, as he says, our tyres, though I have a different opinion to this. I am more than sure that the erosion is solely caused by nature itself....rain is the primary source followed by winds. Our tyres can only stamp and pack the clay down and not leave it loose to be blown away with strong winds. The many gulleys that are formed in the road leading down to Selmun were all formed with the passage of water and not with our tyres. How could they be formed with our tyres when these gulleys are single lined unless we have tyres on one side of the vehicle only!!!:( And if one looks closely enough you would notice that these gulleys are all on the side where the road tilts sideways, which is the obvious path that rain water would take!!!:p

Deidun also never mentioned who really ruined Selmun, and it wasn't us even with all the racing/driving we did down there. It was the owners/farmers of the vineyard that was planned for the Selmun fields. They were the ones who bulldozed all the stepped fields and rubble walls, dug up the road we use and brutally uprooted all the bamboo we had painstakingly planted all along the road and in many various other places (some of which is still seen in the lower area of the fields. And the daily watering we carried out, towing a specially made bowser behind our Land Rovers, to keep the bamboo growing steadily, in which we succeeded only to see it bulldozed down as soon as the bamboo reached its mature state!:(

I would love to ask Deidun why does Selmun provoke him so much, when there are many other areas being permanently damaged, and not a word is said about these!!! One such area springs immediately to mind....the valley where Ballut Blocks are situated in T'Alla w Ommu!!!! How come nobody ever does anything about the constant flow of "Camura" (tile polishing paste or whatever it is) oozing out from a large diameter pipe emerging from the factory wall straight into the valley. So much so that this valley not only that it is not protected by the authorities....they have condemmed it!!!!:( And they make you want to believe that all valleys on the island are sacred ground!!!! So how come Ballut Block valley is not on the list???? Could it be money talk???

Before I close my lengthy mail, I advise you lot to quit writing mail/letters to Deidun or anyone else on these matters...let them write what they want...someday they will get fed up and stop like Paul Borg did...but do not reply to him/they as you would be throwing sticks on the dying fire!!!! You have just started coming down to Selmun recently, and why not...but please do not ruin our last remaining meeting place/swimming area with such letters! Some of us have been regular visitors to Selmun for 30 years or more, and I for one would love my children to follow suit....SO PLEASE STOP WRITING STUPID MAIL/LETTERS TO SUCH MATTERS! :(

Regards,

Kaci

[Ggoo]

I totally agree with what Autokaci said and i think i can expand a little further.

I don't know if anyone noticed the new ruts that have opened up since last summer. Just before you get to the room and the bottom of the hill there is a totally new waterway. Another sign of water damage.

About the article, I see no mention to LAND ROVERS. He always refers to OFFROADERS. And if i saw correctly, there is a toyota pickup in the photo too. He was no way pointing fingers to Land Rovers. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought his article had no pointing fingers to Land Rover owners.

However, from the environmental aspect, he picked on the least relevant environmental impact with regards to Selmun. Soil erosion, like autokaci said, occurs with heavy rain not offroading. Soil erosion caused by offroading is only a threat in a soiled valley. The only real permanent damage being done in Selmun is soil COMPACTION, which results in destruction of flora (which doesn't exist along the road down to Selmun) and the devastation of wildlife habitats. When was the last time you saw something living along the route down to the sea? Never. I know there are rabbits in the area (rather...there WERE rabbits), however, no rabbot is going to live on clay anyway. The rabbits live in the fields...where the ALE were driving their Korrando this afternoon!! There are other impact of offroading, however they are not permanent (namely tyre marks and noise). If you notice, Selmun changes is contours only in the winter, when nobody goes to selmun and the rain washes its way through. When hundreds of vehicles go down in the summer months, the terrain doesn't change shape at all. Therefore just let this guy get it out of his system.

The ALE or the MEPA cannot fine us for driving down to Selmun, like autokaci said, its marked as a road on the map. So long as the entrance remain open, we can go down and enjoy it.

However, i must say one thing... there is something we can do!!! and that is to make sure we keep selmun clean from litter. A BBQ is lovely at selmun, so is a day by the sea. However, it is horrible when you find week old piece of coal stuck to the bottom of your foot as you walk to the sea, or paper flying around. If everybody takes home the rubbish he brings along, it will be easy and we will all be able to enjoy it more. It doesn't take much.

[Reiny]

Guys, I understand your anguish. If you think that fellow Land Rover owners turn a blind eye to these articles, think again. We all get really worked up and worried to a certain extent but by sleeping dogs lie, we have managed to practice our sport with little or no interference. Most of us have itching fingers to put pen to paper (or rather fingers to keyboards :) ) but stopped ourselves in the nick of time. Please understand that if we **** this guy off a little bit more, he'll be on the warpath. As Autokaci said, most of you are still new and don't remember Selmun how it was before.

Until September 1999, Selmun was a paradise. As Autokaci said, offroaders had even planted a nice quantity of bamboo to act as a windbreaker and there was a heavenly campsite just behind this bamboo. Some people even took the trouble of taking rather large quantities of water down to Selmun every few days to water the bamboo until it was strong enough to survive a summer alone. Anyway, that was the situation until the said date. I was down at Selmun one week before bulldozers destroyed the area. I was there again the following week and found a total disaster. Just to give you an idea of how beautiful that area was - the mounds of filth and rubble which line the right hand side of the track as we drive down WERE NOT THERE. Instead, there were rolling fields as far as the eye could see.

To date, we have been lucky enough to be able to enjoy the beach in peace and quiet. Let's not ruin this privilege. PLEASE.

[tdi200]

What a bunch of children :eek: , WHY THE HELL DID YOU SEND MAILS TO THAT ASS WIPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I did not start this tread to send the moron mails! you people may have fueled the bloody fire more..................... STOP SENDING MAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just noticed what a mistake i did by starting this................ you people need to think a bit more about others before putting what you think into words!

Now i just hope this will not turn personal..........................

Grem, disgusted!

[buzz]

You did nothing wrong with starting this thread Gremlin!
It would have been fine to have made comments on this site but to actualy go ahead and email this Deidun bloke (for want of a better name, :p )

Its advice landing on deaf ears!

We have been adviced countless times by you Guys from the AWDC about keeping xtum about something like this.

Writting emails and replying is precisely what this guy wants.
Now how are you going to wriggle out of this one. expect your emails to be published by this guy now and sending the photo of the ALE vehicle will definatly do the 4X4 world no good.

The guy set the trap now you have fallen into it and have dragged most of us in with you with your replies to him.


So please stop!
Fueling his cause!

As Nighthawk rightly mentioned before emailing this guy surely you could have had the decency of talking with you friends about your intentions before incriminating them!

I'm sorry guys, nothing personal but you should have let the "dog" lie.

[cil111]

Olo

your email is slightly better written but it seems to me that you have managed to turn against us the other two groups who might have done some lobbying along with us..

Plus this thing of the ALE is ridiculous man... why do you guys wanna turn the cops against us... u can be sure that on the day of the article of deidun that is in 2 weeks time, u are going to find a balla ALE there.

thank god the ALE did not come down yesterday!!!! u wanna make sure that they come down....

i advise that you stop these bloody emails to the guy man...

[ford_focus_cmv]

Mela sorry guys for the impulse mail.

It finished ok with this guy, he said we had a nice debate, and no war between us.

I dont think this small discussion we had is going public.

he explained about the biological internal damages but he mentioned nothing about studies that have been done.

And also nothing about that lie that he talked to the group.

sorry again,
if we dont teach persons like this, they will continue to come and when its too late we say that no one tried to do something about it.
And then forget selmun.

Imsomma sorry again,
See you all
See you.

[Reiny]

Kemm int tifel sew jahasra. So you actually believed that nothing will happen? You only fuelled him with information. Jesus Christ I can't believe how gullible and naive some people can be.

[tdi200]

It finished ok with this guy, he said we had a nice debate, and no war between us.

Sorry ta, and you trust him? cause i dont..................................

I just hope that this has been a learning curve for you and pray that no irreversable damage has been done to the offroad community.

Grem

[buzz]

Sorry ta, and you trust him? cause i dont..................................

I just hope that this has been a learning curve for you and pray that no irreversable damage has been done to the offroad community.

Grem

Issa what is done is done. There is no point crying over spilt milk.
I think from the feed back ford focus cmv has got he has learnt.
Now let Deidun do his worst and we'll have to take it from there.
There's no point flogging a dead horse!...... ;)

[tdi200]

U le naf, imma it was not my intention to cause such a stir! But i feel that i was partly the cause for him to be so impulsive and post up!

Never again zgur....................

Grem

[cil111]

grem dont worry

they knew about the article in the afternoon at selmun so not you sparked it off man...

[dynamited]

I havent seen the article as yet.. and i`ll be digging up the paper to look for it.

But i agree with the general idea that these people should be ignored. They have nothing else to write about other than moan, sulk, write loads of BS and all.

You can never trust these people.... cause they can easily take parts of your email out of context and make it sound differently. I cannot see myself agreeing with the awdc :p but really guys... leave these prats say what they want. They are only people trying to sell some articles.... by throwing scum and thrash at others. Who ever heard of this chap anyway? Just cause his article is printed... not that anyone cares!


But this calls for action buddies... we need to kick start a pro-environment campaign in order to kick these `journalists` right were it hurts most.... on their own media. We need to get involved in environment programmes, fundraising, cleanup programmes, good deeds and feed the press with such information.

Then.. and only then.. the effects of articles such as this can be softened and made less effective.

[dynamited]

Just in case you dont want to bother to read my post, summarised:

I dont think its a good idea to reply and take notice of this guy and his useless comments.

[jobrun]

You really believe what you just wrote?? You should see how much time we took part in cleaning the world campaigns, and other stuff!! It all finally turns against you. You are all new to the off-road scene here, leave it at that, you have already done too much damage to us all already.



Do you really think that this will stop here NOW!! After your replies to Mr. Dejdun? Grow up guys!! Do you have any idea what politics are, haven't you noticed that in his article he attached the 2 big political parties. Do you know that Mr. Dejdun is an active member of the AD Party? Do you know he is in the Rambler's Ass. Committee? Do you check your facts before you speak? Do you know what are the really plans for Selmun? Do you know that the government has been handed 2 plans from Selmun? Both from huge developers. DO you know that you might have marked the start of the end of Selmun?



Come to think of it in a calmer manner you might have done AWDC a favor.....



Bru


Bru

[dborg01]

Guys,

Let's call what happened history, but please do not repeat it. I feel the same 'anger' you do when people try to criticise with lack of knowledge about the whole picture. Please do respect this guy's opinion about the environment and biology - he's been thought most of the theory and most probably got some very good field practice as well! Also, please do not use your e-mail in a hostile way, as that will only trigger a backfire! We want to settle the issue, right? Also, on this topic no one speaks for himself. If you defend off-roading, especially after such an article, you're speaking particularly of those guys shown in the pics.

So, let's elect 2 representatives from the MLRAC and go speak to him in a decent way. The conversation will be recorded and if need be published on the news paper, but this has to be discussed.

I hereby ask for the moderators to close off this topic and I call an urgent meeting for next Wednesday the 04th of April 2005. Further details will be sent via PMs or SMS.

I thank you for your understanding.
Regards
Daniel Borg

[cil111]

daniel forget about speaking to guy man...


u will just be fueling more info to him...

forget it.. issa let him react to it and then see after...

it shows that his info is scattered and not correct... use that as an advantage... do not give him info...

[theBaptist]

im sorry to see that the ones writing these emails WERE NOT even there that day !!!!!!!! not even the ones there should write or any landy lover at all ahseb u are 2 people who were not even there !!

come on guys what the hell were you thinking ?? :behead:

maybe from the answers here u have matured a bit more slightly in life's learning curve. grow up or at least be quiet. :(


EDIT : speak to the guy ?? forget it too me says ...... no matter how much talking you're going to do you WILL NOT change his opinion. waste of time and probably more damage to the offraoding community.

[Jungle]

Are you Nuts? or where you under the affect of dope???

For Christ's sake, just pack your computer back ints itrs box and put it away, you will do a favour to all!

if you smoke a fag in a bar, its illigal, if you do it in the street its not; if you smoke a joingt in a bar or street, it will always be illigal, unless the law is changed.

this is the sma ething witrh offroad, it IS ILLEGAL. no matter what your argumnets are, valid or wrong, you are still commiting a crime.

so you can never argument with seidun, re this case.

thank you for gfiving him fuel to burn us all, i ghave inveresd some 3000 hard saved cash in my offroader, with actions like yours, people like me will have to keep low till the waters hopefully calm down. next time you want to be on the papers, think abnout the Maltese saying: qies mitt darba, u qatgha darba. (measure it 100 times, and cut it ones! )