Disc Brakes [Archive] - Land Rover UK Forums

nighthawk

22nd Apr 2005, 15:06

Olo brake pads are a compromise. Either soft or hard. Soft will tend to get eaten away within months (like yours maybe?). Hard will take ages to wear out, BUT... your brake discs will get filed down quicker. This is what I have on mine. Very good brakes, but the brake discs are getting thin, while the brake pads are nice and meaty almost like new. My brake discs are now at 9.5mm from 12mm new. The minimum recommended thickness according to the workshop manual is 11mm!

On the theme of brakes (well brake shoes etc)... I fixed my handbrake (finally). I now learnt to hate dished washers with a passion.

Wow... I had forgotten what it's like having a handbrake... :D

olo

22nd Apr 2005, 18:52

how difficult is it to replace discs? how much do they cost?

nighthawk

22nd Apr 2005, 19:10

They cost somethin between Lm15 and Lm25 each I guess depending on brand and type (vented/non-vented) etc. As for replacing, I never did it myself but the workshop manual does indicate you have to remove the entire hub to replace the disc. Shouldn't be too much of a problem though assuming the bolts aren't seized.

We'll find out in summer when I do it :D

olo

22nd Apr 2005, 19:12

lol if i ever get to change them i think i'll opt for vented

nighthawk

22nd Apr 2005, 19:23

If I opt for vented they won't remain vented for long! They'll fill up with mud in no time! :D

Solid discs all the way for me!

tdi200

25th Apr 2005, 06:25

lol if i ever get to change them i think i'll opt for vented

Vented will not fit a standard caliper also!

Grem

olo

25th Apr 2005, 09:33

oh pitty :(

sorry i'm no expert on land rovers :(

i remember my 2 month old integra had blue brembo discs :D they were god like :(

joe019

3rd May 2005, 00:32

What a change of style!!

oh pitty :(
i remember my 2 month old integra:(

Reiny

3rd May 2005, 06:50

dborg01

3rd May 2005, 10:12

Removing the hub isn't difficult and no you won't find seized bolts. Everything is swimming in gear oil. What you need is the correct hub nut spanner. Unbolting the disc from the hub is a bit of a bitch because the bolts have threadlock on them. Both the original manual and haynes describe the job very accurately. I've never measured the thickness of my discs but they seem to be still ok. However, my pads haven't worn out much. They're down to half their thickness but I seem to remember them like that since I bought the vehicle (just under two years ago). I've covered 18,000 miles u ma jridux jafu. Boqq.

Maybe they're not working :D
Joking apart, Rein, better check the discs as your braking power could be compromised. I mean you might not notice it as it disappear gradually but when you come to a very steep slope or you go through water your brakes might seem like non-existant!!

tdi200

3rd May 2005, 14:07

Errrrrmmmm........ brake fade has nothing to do the disk thickness!!, thin disks will eventually break off and make you crash. Brake fade may also occur if too much heat gets to the disks and pads.

Grem

joe019

3rd May 2005, 22:36

Is this brake fade constant or I didn't understand a thing? Cause if it is constant you might conidering checking the vacum pump and the pipes linking it to the servo or whatever it is called. On my series the system is loosing vacum from somewhere and breaks are not healthy at all.

Regards
Joseph

dborg01

4th May 2005, 11:06

I only meant that if by applying a certain pressure on the brake pedal you should get a certain braking force, by time, I mean after months and years of use, that force will be reduced slowly even when applying the same pressure on the brake pedal. I agree with you Grem, having thin disks and even thing pads at the same time this shouldn't happen....in theory......but in practice in most cases it does!

My idea is that I prefer to have mild (not soft) brake pads and have them worn down in a year rather than eating the discs out!

olo

5th May 2005, 21:55

thanks loads for the explaination reiny about the discs change. well i stay playing around yesterday and i think my front pads are gone. i feel the braking force on the back, kinda like pulling the vechile rather then as it used to be when i used to feel the whole thing braking before.

dunno will check next month in the service. enough hassle with my clutch (not even 24 hours and it fked up again!) want to sort it out.

btw nighthawk, remember when i said mine sounds "rougher" ? found out why... tensioner bearings gone bye bye.

the problems i had in the clutch (at least its wot the mechanic said and explained when showed me the parts).

pressure plate "burnt" in the middle
slip plate had a little life in it left but better change it now
release bearings FUBAR, outer casing meltin, inner case used to hold bearings
clutch fork one of the forks (from the side) snapped off coz of the ceased bearings.

Reiny

6th May 2005, 06:45

Ed, I think you've been sleeping on the clutch my friend. the things you described all point to leaving your foot on the clutch while driving.

Why don't you remove your wheels and look at the thickness of your brake pads? If you don't want to bust your bank account, I'd seriously suggest that you start getting your hands dirty ta! ;) I keep a very careful log of all the work I do on my vehicle. In two years, I worked on the vehicle for close to 80 hours. If a garage charges Lm5 an hour, I saved myself Lm400.

olo

6th May 2005, 07:24

yea reiny, just bought the haynes and got the workshop manual off someone too, now i got to invest in the tools.

as regards to clutch i used to "sleep on it" till about june when dborg01 pointed it out and now i dont do it anymore, not even in traffic, thats y i got worried, especially since i just drove it 2 streets away to get to my home.

if during one of the drives you'd like to come along you're more then welcome as i could do with some advice if am doing something wrong.

ok here's a dumb question for you regarding the pads, once the wheel is off, how do you get to the pads? if am not mistaken they "hidden" under the calipers no? sorry am just new to this stuff. how do you check if the pads are still good or not? are there like some evident signs to look out for?

dborg01

6th May 2005, 10:50

Olo, I'm very sorry to hear that too much damage was done before I grabbed your attention re clutch. But anyway, you learned a complete lesson the hard way. You can call yourself experienced in that matter now!!;)

As to the brake pads, I suggest you grab the factory manual and forget about the haynes. The haynes will only be worth for burning in your next camp fire. Check the manual out tonight and tomorrow morning drop off at my garage, if you still remember where it is :p I'll guide you through the process, as you might overlook some things....and you can use 'my' tools as well. Just call me before coming so that I make sure I'll be there.

Cheereeow :rolleyes:

olo

7th May 2005, 15:45

just saw the post now, guess its a bit too late :/

nighthawk

7th May 2005, 17:13

Once wheel is off the pads are visible, held only by the retaining pin and anti rattle springs I believe.

Just had a look at my rear ones since I'm getting a rattle from there and I was like "hmmm... something's wrong here... right side doesn't look like left".. then daniel had a look and was like "errr.... there's no pad left!!" :eek: lol. The piston is visible pushing the pad backplate.

Got a seized piston which probably left the brakes on on that wheel and ate the pads away... now i got a horrible rattle and 1 (only 1) worn down brake pad. Funny thing is I haven't noticed any weird braking phenomena. Front pads (where most of the braking power is put) are still ok though.

Options
1. Change the rear pads now?
2. Find a cheapo rear pad and change just one just to get along till summer.
3. Leave it like this till summer? :D

In summer I intend to change all pads for good quality mild ones and check/recondition each caliper since we've started seeing seized pistons. I guess one's seized the others will start following. And I wouldn't be Dennis if I replaced pads and didn't check calipers! That wouldn't be Dennis' way of doing things would it?! :D

joe019

7th May 2005, 19:39

or worse... disconnect hydraulic link to the rear brakes. dawwarlu dawra tape :)

Options
1. Change the rear pads now?
2. Find a cheapo rear pad and change just one just to get along till summer.
3. Leave it like this till summer? :D
:D

joe019

7th May 2005, 19:42

only 80 hours during 2 years?? You must have a very reliable landy :)

In two years, I worked on the vehicle for close to 80 hours. If a garage charges Lm5 an hour, I saved myself Lm400.

Reiny

8th May 2005, 08:10

Oh it's reliable alright! And most of them were routine servicing or upgrading. No damage as such. I really can't complain. But I think I'm getting a well-deserved rest. I drove a Series III for 7 years and I spent far mor time under it than I've spent with this vehicle.

landymaniac

8th May 2005, 16:33

dak apposta rein.;) peress li tbellalek xeba skossi is series u tfotilek dahrek tatik terapija specjali (hsara u da) biex tidhol tahta u toqghod mindud dritt ma l art wiccek il fuq:p

dborg01

9th May 2005, 10:03

Dennis, if you still intend the rebuild in summer just leave everything as it is..........kelb rieqed......jibda jonhor....ups...sorry......la tqajmux, ridt nghid:D

Anyway, for the summer job see what you are going to do exactly. Getting the calipers out might be tempting to upgrade the whole braking system or just parts of it. Like for example going for vented and/or cross-drilled disk brakes. Then again if you find damaged pistons are going for OEM or better still stainless steel ones, which practically last forever? Consider this before plunging to work as I have the feeling that you're in for a major upgrade in your braking system.

Sorry if I mixed you up but like this you can start saving for everything you would need!! :rolleyes:

nighthawk

9th May 2005, 17:12

I honestly feel the stock braking system is very up to the job of stopping the vehicle. I never had trouble braking and certainly don't have trouble locking the front wheels if I step on the brakes. I really don't feel the need for better brakes. Stainless steel pistons is something I'd like though. I've certainly got 1 damaged piston because I can see more rust than metal on it when looking at it in it's seized position.

I really never intended to touch the brakes in summer. I just want a new rear crossmember, rustproofing and a respray, swap to polybushes everywhere and a good look at the wiring to fix all my increasing number of electrical gremlins. However with the sorry state the rear brakes are in I guess I'll have to do them too. I'll settle with rebuilding the calipers (even though LR Manual says not to split the caliper halves), and fitting high quality EBC brake pads. I think my discs might need replacing too as they're getting anemic now! Stock ones are dirt cheap though so I'll go with those.

As for leaving everything as is, yes that what I want to do since braking hasn't been a problem really. In fact I didn't notice any reduction in braking performance. However I hope the VRT guy doesn't check out rear brake efficiency too well!

Oh btw... my landy is leaking gear oil from the axle onto the brake disc and onto the inner side of the tyre. It FINALLY leaked... :D

Sounds like a job to do at the weekend...

olo

9th May 2005, 22:21

thats another question i'd like to ask, from personal experience or knowledge/research done, wots the best bet for brake pads? wot would u do? get hard ones for better braking and change discs more often or get softer ones and change pads more often?

nighthawk

9th May 2005, 22:26

Neither.
Just get high quality pads and don't change either pads or discs often.
However, if you really had to choose between the cheaper pads, soft is better. Grips better and since it's a simple drop in replacement it's much easier to replace than replacing the disc. Cost shouldn't be an issue because stock discs are dirt cheap anyway.

olo

10th May 2005, 01:22

how much would these high quality pads cost? and how long would they last? and how much do soft cheap pads cost? and how long do those last? (just tryin to evalute which to go for next time round)

nighthawk

10th May 2005, 05:19

around twice as much as the cheaper pads (from the UK.. dunno about price in malta). I'm talking Lm18 per axle (4 pads). How long they last depends on driving style. Never been through a whole set myself. They got other advantages. Less brake dust, less brake fade etc. Never tried them myself but I'm willing to try :)

dborg01

10th May 2005, 10:53

Dennis, a full service of the calipers can be done without separating the halves. It's very simple and if done smoothly will be finished in no time at all. If you wish just let me know when you decide to go for the job, I'll give a hand.

Anyway, if you feel that your brakes are up to your driving style you may just 'upgrade' to stainless steel pistons.

As to brake pads, the issue of hard and soft pads has been going on since a very long time before landies dreamed about having disk brakes. My father told me about it because he used to own an Escort MKI and this was most people at first seemed to go for the harder pads only to find out that although they barely needed change, when a good service was required they had to change everything: brake pads and disks!!!! For that reason my father stuck to the softer pads and changed them approximately every once a year. The car still uses the same discs with no problems at all!!!!

olo

10th May 2005, 14:44

am confused now :/ dborg01, these "higher quality pads" (lets call them that way coz i dunno the name) sound very tempting, would u suggest them?

nighthawk

10th May 2005, 17:26

The brake pads I'm talking about are EBC Green stuff Series 6000 or somethin like that. They apparently have a very good reputation among landies... just like Borg & Beck for clutches.

About the brakes Daniel, I think I'll leave it all for July. Better do everything in peace without pressure. Will give time for my paddocks shipment to arrive. God knows how much I'm gonna be saving compared to Malta prices :D

As long as I can pass VRT this way I don't mind waiting.

dborg01

11th May 2005, 07:29

Olo, what's all your worry exactly about? I went to the shop, asked for brake pads for a Land Rover 90, he dropped a box on the table, I paid, went to my garage, replaced the brake pads and so far all I do is clean them well with a power wash after a muddy event and clean them with compressed air at every service. This was since 3 years ago and so far I had no problems. They haven't got worn down too much and the discs remained the same size. And nearly all pistons remained in perfect working condition!!!!

Jusrt a persdonal oppinion.......if you're gonna sweat yourself too much on such small things most probably you're going to look the oldest of us all in a couple of years :rolleyes: RELAX mate, just go buy the brakes, replace them and have fun!!

dborg01

11th May 2005, 07:30

Nighthawk,

You ARE going to pass the VRT. Just let me know before you do it, I've got your solution :D

olo

11th May 2005, 07:54

nah i aint worrying, i'm just seeing if there is a more cost effective solution :)

cil111

11th May 2005, 09:32

Just do like daniel said denis...

and forget about hard or soft u hekk... the normal pads used by land rover are good enough at stopping the car... lanqas illi u r driving a 200mph car...

and not even vented discs are worth the hassle i think... the discovery does not use them and it is much heavier than a defender... though on the same argument why my range rover uses them i dont know... maybe because of the abs

just normal decent brake pads like i dont know i used ferodo, EBC u hekk... go to boccu or richard or whoever u buy from or if u have the old ones any auto parts store and get a set... u have around Lm 10 per axle qisu... and they will be good enough...