View Full Version : BAJJU DIJZIL
Just thought I'd open a thread as there does seem to be quite an interest among us about it.
I would also first advice making a small amount just to get the "feel"
I personally bought three litres of vegie oil from the supermarket and made a small batch.
Making it is pretty simple but its not realy enough, it usually would need to go thru a process known as washing.
This process neutralises the ph of the fuel and removes any soaps or remaining methanol.
What I inetend doing after making the biodiesel is when I have collected a sufficient ammount of biodiesel, say around 50litres, I will add the same ammount of water (the methyl-esters will float on the water) then using a suitable air pump and air stone air the liquids.
However the PH of the water should be such as to neutralise that of the biodiesel.
EG if the Biodiesel has a PH value of say 9, then the water should have a value of 5, or viseversa, so during bubbling the resultant PH values should end at 7.
Neutral is 7. IE Value of biodiesel PH + value of water PH=14
The bubbling should be left for about 8hrs. It is probably the longest part of the process but in todays modern engines I think is well worth doing.
Journey to forever.... (http://journeytoforever.org/) This is a very infromative site for biodiesel.
This is what I tried using the supermarket vegie oil. (http://http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=447609751&f=719605551&m=857600061)
am interested, just not really convinced so far, dunno y am sort of afraid of it, hence y am stickin to diesel hehe
nighthawk
18th Feb 2005, 21:17
I'm very interested. Won't dare with Edible Oil's biodiesel though. I need quality control!
So I'll be running on Buzzodiesel whenever the samples are ready :D
landymaniac
18th Feb 2005, 22:19
I will have a try too but first i have to change mu distribution pump's rubber because of new chemicals. Hope that i will fing rubber that supposrts biodiesel.:Idunno: i had problems with my 2.3 with adible's oil biodiesel:thumbsdow
joe019
19th Feb 2005, 01:37
Can you specify more about this?
i had problems with my 2.3 with adible's oil biodiesel:thumbsdow
joe019
19th Feb 2005, 01:43
Great Idea buzz for creating this thread here!!!
About neutralizing the PH of the product, I guess that is not that difficult. I think you can take a sample , a strip of Litmus paper and try to approximate the amount of Acid/Alkali required......
Buzz When you made your bio batch, out of the whole cocktail, what percentage of biodiesel did you extract?
I was promised some 20 litres of used veg oil, and would lilke to try it out.
Regards
Joseph
Hi Joe,
I got quite a high percentage back, I have read in some forums that some even get over 100% (thats because they probably used some of the glyceryne too). I think it is safe to say you get a over 80% return from the WVO and that's being quite ;) conservative.
Yes Re the PH value. I have bought a universal ph testing strip and of course will take a sample and neutralise it with Acetic Acid during the washing process.
I also think it is more worthwhile to titrate before going through the process instead of converting samples and determining the amounts of caustic soda and methanol.
Titration may be a bit fiddly but the result determines the exact amount of cautic soda:methanol:WVO proportions.
landymaniac
21st Feb 2005, 08:27
problems I had
total loss lift pump--it was internally polished
starting problems
extremely white smoking
cracked distribution pump seals
But someday I go to the diesel specialist and check if there are washers and fuel pipes for the 2.3 diesel engie that are compatible with biodiesel
Basically Landymaniac, pipes are no problem you can use ordinary plastic ones the problem arises with the use of rubber pipes, the biodiesel is a solvent and apart from cleaning as you described it's said to decompose rubber.
The seals are the main worry, however, it could all be a result of poor biodiesel quality.
landymaniac
21st Feb 2005, 08:41
all my fuel pipes are rubber and the cost quite a lot:behead:
theBaptist
21st Feb 2005, 09:04
kif hawwatuni qahbec .... :rolleyes:
i'd like to try bajjudijzil if i save money but me gonna buy it off you guys if you start producing !! :bounce:
le le bis serjeta issa .... anybody thinking of producing it on a large scale ? if you have a good amount of 'clients' willing to buy it i guess it will benefit both sides :yay:
Thing about producing to sell is getting into paying duty and price increase, it is cheaper to make and use your own as I believe to sell you will have to be charges some form of tax. Also to go inot producing for a 'clientele will require a lot more time and money which I don't have.
When I start making and using my own I will post and let you all know my results and maybe encourage other's to make their own.
The process is as difficult or as easy as you want to make it. :)
Buying it from edible oil doesn't realy have much benefit, the opening times are unreasonable and the price difference is ridiculous.
The only real good time to use it otherwise is before going to do a VRT test to drastically reduce emmisions!!
joe019
26th Feb 2005, 07:42
Did you do the bio cocktail yourself or what?
problems I had
total loss lift pump--it was internally polished
starting problems
extremely white smoking
cracked distribution pump seals
But someday I go to the diesel specialist and check if there are washers and fuel pipes for the 2.3 diesel engie that are compatible with biodiesel
joe019
26th Feb 2005, 07:46
For all those interested in making BioDiesel, I got some 30 litres of used veg oil. I intend doing some tests with it. I won't be using all that and there is more used veg oil to come... so if you need some I'll be glad to supply you some used veggie to try making bio yourselves....
Joseph
DO NOT EVER ADD ANYTHING ACIDIC TO BIODIESEL!!!!!!!
This causes the soaps to break down into free fatty acids which will ruin fuel pumps, injectors etc etc. There are no components in a diesel engine that can be damaged by alkali fuel.
Use tap water for washing fuel (not rain water if you can avoid it).
Incidentally, the concept of pH in biodiesel is meaningless. pH refers to the concentration H+ ions in an aqueous solution only - not a level of acidity in an ester. To measure this you must do a titration against a solution of known pH.
Be very wary of a lot of hte material on the Journey to Forever website. While there is alot of useful information, there is also a lot of baloney, and to the uninitiated the two are hard to tell apart.
H
So HCR,
Basically as long as the biodiesel is alkaline there is no reason to neutralise it using acid during the washing?
Cheers HCR.
joe019
27th Feb 2005, 10:39
Hi HCR, It is great to have feedback from someone who is knowledgable in such chemistry... So Alkali solutions do not corride metal?
Regards
Joseph
DO NOT EVER ADD ANYTHING ACIDIC TO BIODIESEL!!!!!!!
This causes the soaps to break down into free fatty acids which will ruin fuel pumps, injectors etc etc. There are no components in a diesel engine that can be damaged by alkali fuel.
Use tap water for washing fuel (not rain water if you can avoid it).
Incidentally, the concept of pH in biodiesel is meaningless. pH refers to the concentration H+ ions in an aqueous solution only - not a level of acidity in an ester. To measure this you must do a titration against a solution of known pH.
Be very wary of a lot of hte material on the Journey to Forever website. While there is alot of useful information, there is also a lot of baloney, and to the uninitiated the two are hard to tell apart.
H
So HCR,
Basically as long as the biodiesel is alkaline there is no reason to neutralise it using acid during the washing?
Cheers HCR.
Correct. The levels of alkalinity found in biodiesel will not damage the steel components, but even mild acid will. Many people who make their own biodiesel don't even bother washing, and the worst problem you are likely to encounter as a result of this is blocking of the fuel filter from free glycerine.
Incidentally, another way of guaging the alkalinity of the fuel is to measure the pH of the wash water. Not 100%, but it will give you an idea.
Henry
Thats great, thanks HCR,
I will be posting my results here too.
Thanks a lot for your help.
joe019
1st Mar 2005, 18:43
So far I got used oil and caustic soda enough to do a whole year of bio fuels supply... I need methanol now. So far the cheapest price I got to know of is a 45c a liter S&R in handaq. You have to take your own containers cause otherwise price will be higher. Does anyone know of a cheaper price, and also where is this S&R?
Regards
Joseph
So far I got used oil and caustic soda enough to do a whole year of bio fuels supply... I need methanol now. So far the cheapest price I got to know of is a 45c a liter S&R in handaq. You have to take your own containers cause otherwise price will be higher. Does anyone know of a cheaper price, and also where is this S&R?
Regards
Joseph
Not sure how cheap things get in your neck of the woods, but that would be a very good price in the UK.
There is a place you can buy cheaper but you need to buy in quantities of 205 litres, they sell that for around LM60 and they'll deliver at that price. That works out to just over 29cents per litre wich I think is very good. Means the biodiesel will cost less than 5 cents a litre!!
If you like Joe we can go halves?
theBaptist
2nd Mar 2005, 09:06
S & R is in Mile End Street, Hamrun (Blata l-Bajda really) ... opposite the MLP HQ a bit further down towards where Guido DeMarco used to live ....
Well last Sunday I filtered around 57 litres of WVO. What a job that was. Tho' now I have the hang of it next time will be better prepared.
It is a good idea to heat the oil from this stage for nothing better than to melt the solidifed part and to ease flow thru the filter.
I used waste material, cloth.
Now I will be processing all the oil tonight at once.
I have set up a 200litre polyethelene drum, and I am going to try mixing with two fully submersable aquarium pumps which should make mixing quite a bit easier. Also I am going to preheat the oil to around 50 deg C to aid the reaction.
I have fitted a couple of quarter turn valves to the drum, one underneath (the drum is raised high enough to be able to fill a 5 gallon jerrycan) to facilitate draining glycerene and water during the process. The other valve is at the lower side to enable filling of jerrycans.
I wouldn't be too worried about filtering. As long as the biggest lumps are out all the little bit will come out in the processing. Heating up to about 80C will make all the water sink to the bottom, along with said big lumps. After the oil has cooled down a bit being passed through a single layer of J Cloth will be quick and easy and sufficient for processing.
I wouldn't be too worried about filtering. As long as the biggest lumps are out all the little bit will come out in the processing. Heating up to about 80C will make all the water sink to the bottom, along with said big lumps. After the oil has cooled down a bit being passed through a single layer of J Cloth will be quick and easy and sufficient for processing.
So I should heat the WVO and filter thru a J Cloth? Or are you saying I should process into Biodiesel then filter thru a J Cloth.
Incidently yesterday the sumbersable pump idea went out the window but I had a back up drill and paint stirrer which did the job great.
I ran the drill and paint stirrer for around 25 minutes. I had previously heated the oil to melt any solid lumps of fat, and added the methoxide. I then took a sample of the mix into a jar to serve as a control for me.
It is such a satisfaction to see it all happen before your eyes.
The separation can be seen thru the jar almost immediatly and within an hour or two with the black glycerene layer and a much clearer honey colour on top.
Fantastic!!! :D
Also HCR, Some advice re:washing, I can easily do bubble washing but I am not too sure of it as with this I comcluded that you may recycle soaps into the biodiesel.
As for mist washing I think it will be a better method, how would I do this, should I spray an equal ammout of water onto the surface of the biodiesel and concider this the first wash when all the water sinks?
Thanks,
cil111
3rd Mar 2005, 13:03
If you start selling let me know buzz heheh
Cil111 my friend if you knew how damn easy it is to make you'd p$&s yourself laughing!! You don't have to be a brain surgeon to do it, just a dumb ass like me!!! :D
cil111
3rd Mar 2005, 15:54
time is the problem Paul....
i have a severe lack of that at the moment man...
joe019
3rd Mar 2005, 18:43
Did you try the brew in the landy pawl?
Hi guys - I have been away for a couple of days. Heat the oil and filter that through a J cloth - before processing.
Bubble washing is great and if done 3 or so times will remove all soaps. By the way no one has ever demonstrated that soaps are bad for the engine anyway. Remember to be ultra gentle with the first wash as this is when you are most likely to make 'yoghurt' (an emulsion).
Mist washing is possibly a little better, but needs a little more setting up. Of course if you forget about it it can overflow! Use a misting nozzle from a garden centre on a hose.
Henry
joe019
6th Mar 2005, 07:07
If this emulsion happens, does that mean that you have to throw everything away?
Bubble washing is great and if done 3 or so times will remove all soaps. By the way no one has ever demonstrated that soaps are bad for the engine anyway. Remember to be ultra gentle with the first wash as this is when you are most likely to make 'yoghurt' (an emulsion).
Henry
I haven't used any of what I have made yet as I have to now remove the water and heat it to get rid of any remaining.
landymaniac
7th Mar 2005, 15:37
HCR do I have to make any modifications to my 2.25 diesel engine. it has got a CAV distribution pump. as i used to buy local biodiesel and had problems with starting the engine and smoking
dynamited
7th Mar 2005, 15:55
Thats the Lucas one? Everyone `warns` me that the Lucas pumps are not quite good for biodiesel.
Did it give you problems in summer or in winter? Does the biodiesel need any pre-heating before it gets into the fuel pump... and would it help if this is so?
No preheating is required Nev, it works with any mixture of petroleum diesel or even 100% bio.
If there is a problem which I am thinking is that the alkilinity of the bio may be detrimental to rubber and possibly any rubber in the fuel pump. IE seals ETC.
I am guessing that the CAV pump has these rubber seals.
landymaniac
7th Mar 2005, 16:09
preheating is done manualy. the return fuel from the pump will automatically heat the fuel in tank.
joe019
7th Mar 2005, 22:31
You do not need pre heating for bio. You would need heating if you were to use vegetable oil without converting it to biodiesel. But I was reading that it's not really a good idea to feed your engine untreated veg oil.
If done properly, your engine will be ok on bio.
preheating is done manualy. the return fuel from the pump will automatically heat the fuel in tank.
Actualy I have heard that you can use two fuel tanks, one for vegie oil and one for diesel.
You start the engine on the diesel and when the engine is at running temperature you switch over, probably using some kind of electric solenoid valve to switch over to vegetable oil, when you are close to where you need to be you switch back to diesel, however this setup immediatly becomes redundant in Malta due to our short travelling distances. :D
Well Joe I washed mine wrong, it all emulsified, I found that heating it separates the water again and it even clears up, you can then start the washing again, which is what I am going to do.
I was too impatient and hit the water/bio mix with a paint stirrer!! I got mayo!!
Anyway I left it a few days took out the lower layer of water and started heating it, it does separate and can be cleared.
What I have left is still somewhat cloudy but I know its soap cos on heating it comes crystal clear.
I am going to bubble wash it this evening and switch it off before I go to bed and see what its like in the morning.
If its still not clear I'll probably rewash. I am learning first hand here!
I am looking forward to joining the Sunday drive with the smell of my cooking oil!!
Nice to see people trying!
Emulsions will settle out over time, or as you say, heating works too.
Biodiesel is the not the same as vegetable oil; veggie oil will kill a Lucas pump very quickly if not preheated but biodiesel is not a problem at all.
joe019
10th Mar 2005, 22:40
Just finished from mixing my first sample... I did 1 litre of veg oil and am waitng for it to seperate.... It was really easy! Hope it separates now so that I'll prepare to mix the main batch.
Well done Joe, Go for it! You need any advice just email me.
My 50+ litres are now ready to be burnt in my Landy!! Will be processing a further 30litres soon.
:yay: :Mexicanwa:
Well after recovering from the emulsion I decided to bubble wash by adding the same amount of water to the bio and bubbling it for around 4.5 hours. drained off most of the water and let it settle overnight. In the morning I took two samples, one I heated and hey presto crystal clear, the other I did a "jar wash" and watched what happened. The mix separated quite quickly and I had a lower layer of soapless water, which I later drained of and left in the sun and open to the air, and this too cleared up nicely. :D
landymaniac
11th Mar 2005, 08:35
I can't wait till I try my first sample on coming sunday. thanks for your reply HCR but i still think that the distrtibution pump has to be timed as the fuel is thicker than the petroluem diesel..ie i think pure biodiesel will make white smoking. but from what i read/hear i'm sure that there would be success with this fuel
I have never heard of any smoking caused by timing issues when using biodiesel. What is accepted though is that NOx emissions can be reduced by advancing it slightly.
landymaniac
11th Mar 2005, 10:27
then most probably i'm worrying for nothing. i will try my first batch next week nd let you know some results. i'm planning to make a 5 litre batch and rune the truch on this sample.
I have never been to Malta so I have to be careful what I say but I am guessing that even biodiesel will never get as viscous in Malta's climate as regular diesel does in winter in the UK.
Please correct me if I am horribly wrong.
Hi again HCR,
It is a real privilege having your input here.
Well at the moment in Malta the temperature drops to 7 degrees at night and around 13-ish during the day at the moment but in the summer the viscosty drops quite a bit due to our scorching heat.
I don't think these temperatures would affect the viscosity as it would in northern europe or in the UK?
However I don't know how it would affect the Biodiesel. I think Biodiesel is slightly more viscous than pertoleum diesel, is it not?
landymaniac
22nd Mar 2005, 15:41
wey la. Buzz proved to be a perfect teacher I should say. with his help i managed to do a 25ltr batch which would be in my tank by tomorow. As I need to make a minor modification: to set my distribution pump as it is a lucas type.
I also was very happy in producing this batch after bombarding buzz and causing tons of headaches, and thought to produce a small plant to fit in my garage. I will keep an update of this but if anyone could help and hand in some ideas it would be a great help. I found some ideas from veggie power.
No headaches at all mate your most welcome!....... ;)
...............250 litres later.
Hell its easy!
I have even stopped filtering the WVO, as all the muck gathers in the bottom anyway in the glycerene.
Washing twice with the bubble method seems to do the fuel well and now I have at least 4 -5 weeks supply which I leave to settle further in the sun... :D
So where ever you smell fried cooking look out for me!!
landymaniac
31st Mar 2005, 17:24
i burned emmmmm about 60 litres:yay: next step is to give the diesel pump an overhaul and fit with viton rubber and set the timing with the biodiesel. I'm having some smoking problems but that's due to timing.
starting problems:no
fuel line problems:no
filter clogging:no...but better to inspect. i found mine with very fine particles from the fuel tank.
fuel economy:JEEEEEEEE lesss than half the price
hard to do the job: very easy especialyl if you have the right equipment but time consuming
engine: working ok though I think it is making less sound
consumption:same as petroluem diesel
power: i think it improved
smell: ermmmmmm...............maybe there's a mobile frier under the bonnet. it smells of doughnuts........but very clean exhaust, no black smoking(and burning the side spray and chequred plates),
hmmm i like this fuel but the problem is...i'm starting to hate chips beacause of the smell and i can tell which take away is the cleanest ..... many of them are horribly dirty thus keeping me away from them and its hard to explain why i need the oil.........
joe019
31st Mar 2005, 20:46
Hi Steve,
I knew you were on bio... last week I was driving behind you from luqa to qormi and I could smell the odur of chips coming from your landy :):)
Joseph
i burned emmmmm about 60 litres:yay:
landymaniac
31st Mar 2005, 21:35
hahahahahhaaa when i'm in traffic especially in mornings everybody is looking around to try and find out where the smell is coming from.:)
Come on guys no more Biodiesel updates?
I have produced my 309th litre and done close to 800 miles on it and not so much as a hic up!!........... :D
9H1AA
15th Apr 2005, 20:59
:( immmmmmmmm mintom togbuni xejn guys ! kulhadd jaqli ic-chips
fejn narakom nibda niskartakom..............
he he he he
tajba buzzzzzzz
landymaniac
21st Apr 2005, 12:25
important notice: always wash the biodiesel till it is perfectly clear before filling up the tank. otherwise change the fuel filter every 3 days. i had horrible clogging in all the system
important notice: always wash the biodiesel till it is perfectly clear before filling up the tank. otherwise change the fuel filter every 3 days. i had horrible clogging in all the system
Now that is an understatement if ever I heard one, glogging? That was mayonaise in the fuel filter wasn't it Landymaniac?.... :p
Was it glycerine clogging the filter? Or was it crud from the fule tank? Biodiesel has solvent properties so it can clean out fuel tanks, especially on older vehicles, and deposit it all in the filter. One way round this is to fit a very cheap (about £1.50 in UK) inline filter before the main fuel filter.
If it is glycerine, longer settling times or filtering will remove it.
Of course the other option is to wash it(!!) although some people don't like doing that.
H
landymaniac
23rd Apr 2005, 22:32
the problem was that there was a batch that I did not give enough time for the water to settle out from the fuel thus ending with some soap mixed with the fuel which later seperated from the fuel and settled out at the bottom of the tank. but the major problem was when i gave the landy unwashed fuel. the little wate/soap there was at the bottom of the tank reacted with the soap of th unwashed fuel and there was where the landy protested and stopped working and......it decided to stop at 30mins past midnight. at the bottom of the tank settled the soap which became like mayo and all this was sucked by the pump and clocked up the fuel filter/lift pump/water stopper. the washing process was being held in my fuel tank. now i had to gve it back petroluem diesel just to clean again the system as petrodiesel is less viscous than biodiesel. and beleive me it's really hard to give petrodiesel again tooooo <A href="mailto:fu@#k"n">fu@#k"n expensive. in three days i spent money as much as i spend for 1 whole month of biod.
moral of the story: it is approved that washing is really necessary and also omportant that the fuel batches will be worked out all the same.
This also highlights the need to start off with dry oil - soap can only be made in the presence of water, so by heating the oil to 120C and allowing the water to settle out before processing, you will avoid this problem.
H
This also highlights the need to start off with dry oil - soap can only be made in the presence of water, so by heating the oil to 120C and allowing the water to settle out before processing, you will avoid this problem.
H
I would summarize what has happened with, Wash your biodiesel until it is clear, cloudy biodiesel is an indication of impurities.
I think another alternative is to allow quite a bit of settling time for the process. If you have managed to create a little "stock pile" you can comfortably take your time over settling and washing. Taking a few extra days to settle.
Wash your biodiesel until it is clear, cloudy biodiesel is an indication of impurities.
I think another alternative is to allow quite a bit of settling time for the process. If you have managed to create a little "stock pile" you can comfortably take your time over settling and washing. Taking a few extra days to settle.
Good advice - settling is a good opportunity for drying - cloudy biodiesel usually means wet biodiesel. If you leave a cloudy batch to 'settle', you will see that it clears without anything (or without much) sinking to the bottom.
H
landymaniac
27th Apr 2005, 20:19
My 75 ltr processor :D - still under construction
................Still going strong since February 2005!!.....:D :D
theBaptist
17th Oct 2005, 14:43
STFU and let us suffer the increases in peace !! :think:
STFU and let us suffer the increases in peace !! :think:
You don't have to suffer it!!
dynamited
18th Oct 2005, 15:42
Buzz.. erm... just to ask.... would it be a waste to convert new vegetable oil... into bio diesel?
As we spoke last time... im really thinking of having the 2nd tank and switch supply from diesel to oil... whilst travelling only. However, my normal drives/chores are never too far away... so im always 10 mins away from each spot.... IE.. switching 2mins from arriving is a bit too soon. So basically, my savings would be minimal.
But.. if its bio... mixed with diesel.... in the main tank... are their issues of settling?
My original question comes into play... cause i dont think i`ll be able to source enough used oil to keep me going so much.
Can I have a bio sample from `your brew`.. and i mix it with diesel.... cause I want to test if leaving it.. say 3 days `still`... if it will remain mixed... or it will settle into two layers.
joe019
18th Oct 2005, 21:13
Nev,
If I were to try vegetable oil in my landy I would go for BIO. The idea of switching between tanks does not sound good to me. If you forget to switch your tank to dino (fossil) diesel before you switch off the engine and leave it to cool down you will have trouble in starting it again.
Also from some material I read a while ago, it is safer to use bio diesel than straight veg oil. The article I read cited the following reason: When straight veg oil is burnt inside the engine, it leaves a thin solid residue layer onto which the piston rings need to run.... the article highlighted the fact that rings will be worn out pretty fast by running on this veg oil residue.
The problems with making bio diesel are to find a good supply of oil, having the time to process it well, and have your timing pump serviced befor switching to bio. Timing pumps require to have their seals strong enough not to be worn by bio diesel.
Joseph
Buzz.. erm... just to ask.... would it be a waste to convert new vegetable oil... into bio diesel?
As we spoke last time... im really thinking of having the 2nd tank and switch supply from diesel to oil... whilst travelling only. However, my normal drives/chores are never too far away... so im always 10 mins away from each spot.... IE.. switching 2mins from arriving is a bit too soon. So basically, my savings would be minimal.
But.. if its bio... mixed with diesel.... in the main tank... are their issues of settling?
My original question comes into play... cause i dont think i`ll be able to source enough used oil to keep me going so much.
Can I have a bio sample from `your brew`.. and i mix it with diesel.... cause I want to test if leaving it.. say 3 days `still`... if it will remain mixed... or it will settle into two layers.
Yes Joe you are correct, I have also read recently that using SVO would tend to clog injectors etc a bit before their time, although the cost of rectifying this will easily be out weighed by the money savings from the fuel....;)
As for the stopping on Diesel issue that could easily be solved by fitting some sort of buzzer in the dashboard just as a reminder.
There isn't much chance of separation. But if you'd like a sample to try then no worries.
landymaniac
19th Oct 2005, 13:12
note that a 2.5Td is not the ideal engine to use on SVO beacause of the distribution pump.
note that a 2.5Td is not the ideal engine to use on SVO beacause of the distribution pump.
SVO does effect most diesel systems and may clog them at a certain time.
As pointed out, using SVO, renders making for cheaper fuel but the drawback is the tendancy to gum injectors and as you say the diesel pump.
joe019
21st Oct 2005, 01:11
There are loads of points against using SVO. Better to stay away of it.
Paul, If you were to process new unused veg oil in your bio diesel making process, would that still make bio diesel at cheaper rates than dino diesel?
Joseph
SVO does effect most diesel systems and may clog them at a certain time.
As pointed out, using SVO, renders making for cheaper fuel but the drawback is the tendancy to gum injectors and as you say the diesel pump.
There are loads of points against using SVO. Better to stay away of it.
Paul, If you were to process new unused veg oil in your bio diesel making process, would that still make bio diesel at cheaper rates than dino diesel?
Joseph
If the difference in price were to go up to say 10-15cents between SVO and Petro-Diesel then yes it would be worth it, you have to concider the cost of the methanol caustic soda and water and electricity involved
landymaniac
21st Oct 2005, 09:58
joe you are forgetting an important thing. you need to dedicate time to make the fuel. and you have to work when the day comes for the process even if you don't want to and you have no time you still have to work. also remeber that to collect oil you need to compete with many many many people and always try to 'lick the suppliers ****' to get oil. also you need time for this again and fuel.
It's not that easy. people forget these things
joe019
21st Oct 2005, 17:13
Yes I know it is not easy, if it was everyone would be running on it. To get a supply of used oil is not easy, Methanol costs, the process must be dealt with a great deal of patience and accuracy. It is not a joke.
joe you are forgetting an important thing. you need to dedicate time to make the fuel. and you have to work when the day comes for the process even if you don't want to and you have no time you still have to work. also remeber that to collect oil you need to compete with many many many people and always try to 'lick the suppliers ****' to get oil. also you need time for this again and fuel.
It's not that easy. people forget these things
Just thought I'd add some pics of my processor and other equipment used to make my fuel....
The first pic shows my old aquarium pump I use to diffuse air thru the biofuel via the airstone shown in the next post.
The mixer in the 5th pic is what I use to stir the Caustic soda into the methanol, I attach this to a drill.
:p
Well now that winter is here I have encountered a problem with the fuel which if you are aware of can be avoided.
The cold weather brings about what I have found is refered to as 'waxing".
What I realy think it is, is deposits of fat more or less comming out of solution. I'm not a chemist so not 100% sure.
The symptoms are unmistakable as the engine runs very very rough and there is hardly any power to drive with.
On draining the fuel from the tank I discovered the fuel to be very murky and when draining from a jerry can white deposits where left inside the jerry can.
I also noticed in a sample I had in a jar that a white cloudy layer was apparent in the bottom of the fuel.
I deduced that this waxing or whatever you want to call it was clogging my fuel delivery system esspecially the filter.
On draining, changing filter and refueling with petrodiesel things came back to normal after repeated attempts to start and flushing out any remaining "wax"
I have now returned the fuel to the processor and left it out in the cold to further remove any waxing. On pouring the fuel back I also noticed white bits swimming around.
I'll also be diluting the biodiesel with around 30% diesel at the very least.
There is no problem at all in the warmer weather we have here. The wax not only disappears but the fuel has always been crystal clear.
Update.
The cold has been a serious factor and I have switched to 100% petro-Diesel until the weather warms up it has been falling to even 3 Degrees here and for the sake of a month or two I have decided to stick to this until March is in...:(
ragtopmalti
10th Feb 2006, 15:23
Hi Buzz, maybe its better to mix yhe fossil diesel and add 50% bio diesel. This will solve your waxing problem for sure.
Hi Buzz, maybe its better to mix yhe fossil diesel and add 50% bio diesel. This will solve your waxing problem for sure.
Thanks for that and probably it'll be fine but I personally don't want to risk it again.
I beleive mixing parrfin also helps reduce gelling.
It is quite troublesome on the road when I discover that the filter is blocked and just for a month or so won't be a problem using fossil diesel.
Timus
16th Feb 2006, 00:23
Fascinating thread!
I'm going to have to try this.
Fascinating thread!
I'm going to have to try this.
....and its easy peasy, you need any help just post or PM mate, more than happy to help......;)
Timus
17th Feb 2006, 09:00
I may well do that matey!
I'm wondering if it can be used to run heating boilers...
I may well do that matey!
I'm wondering if it can be used to run heating boilers...
it may depend on the fuel delivery system tho, the biofuel has a higher flashpoint than diesel so you may have to experiment a little.
vinnie@mac.com
5th Oct 2006, 10:23
Waxing is a problem I have heard about but that is only the same as fossil diesel used to be. Fuel companies add an anti freeze chemical to the derv to lower its freezing point.
I have heard you can get this to add to your biodiesel. Can't find where I read it from now but do a search perhaps on ebay sure will find something.
Waxing is a problem I have heard about but that is only the same as fossil diesel used to be. Fuel companies add an anti freeze chemical to the derv to lower its freezing point.
I have heard you can get this to add to your biodiesel. Can't find where I read it from now but do a search perhaps on ebay sure will find something.
Yes you defiantly can, I have seen and read it myself.
I have discovered, however, that the problems were due to a poor oil supply.
If there are any detergents in the oil and water has been added it will foul and attempt to produce fuel.
It is important to check before pouring, sometimes smelling the oil and visual inspection of it will determine if it is contaminated.
It realy doesn't get cold enough to wax in Malta but I will be watching out this winter for any.
Settling time and leaving out in direct sunlight realy does wonders for the process.
Right this is the reason I was having so much trouble in the winter with my fuel.
My Range Rover has had an engine conversion.
In the tank, on the end of the fuel uptake pipe "USED" to be a strainer type filter.
Well the Biodiesel being a solvent cleaned and loosened rubbish (for want of a more descriptive word ;) ), blocking this damn strainer miserably.
Imagine my surprise when I kept getting fuel starvation problems even using fossil Diesel.
The diesel specialist told me to sling the strainer and fit and inline filter in the engine bay.
Wow I can hear the turbo whistle again.....:D :D
vinnie@mac.com
31st Jan 2007, 17:19
Here in the UK I am running a 50/50 mix at the moment 100% in the Spring/Summer/Autumn. The one thing I have noticed is you should add the bio to the fossil diesel and not the other way around it mixes better as the bio is heavier it mixes as it sinks through the fossil diesel.
I am planning to try a cloud point depressant to lower the point at which the bio diesel starts to wax.
Here is an important update.
Last year my injection pump sprung a fuel leak.
The main shafts oil seal started to leak fuel intothe timing case cover.
I use 100% biodiesel and this rapidly deteriorated the seals.
I had to take it to a diesel specialist.
They have now been replaced with "Viton" seals I hope that they last longer than the ones changed but even so in the long run it still works out more cost effective.
The specialist stripped the pump into individual components and serviced and changed all the seals and the main rollers.
Also replacing my timing and fan belts (the timing belt was a must as it was soaked in the biofuel).
Anyone else here tried making?
dborg01
12th Feb 2008, 17:42
Here is an important update.
Last year my injection pump sprung a fuel leak.
The main shafts oil seal started to leak fuel intothe timing case cover.
I use 100% biodiesel and this rapidly deteriorated the seals.
I had to take it to a diesel specialist.
They have now been replaced with "Viton" seals I hope that they last longer than the ones changed but even so in the long run it still works out more cost effective.
The specialist stripped the pump into individual components and serviced and changed all the seals and the main rollers.
Also replacing my timing and fan belts (the timing belt was a must as it was soaked in the biofuel).
Anyone else here tried making?
Viton is a Silicone Rubber which withstands a wider range of rubber-attacking materials. It's more expensive as a raw material than natural rubber and elastomers. The only thing is that the properties of biodiesel will still destroy Viton relatively quickly but like you said, at the current fuel price trends, it's definitely more feasible that way than using the tradition diesel.....as long as the leak is noticed before the timing belt is destroyed! (They don't do belts of Viton ;)) ..... otherwise place your cost savings into a money box and in about 5 years you might have enough to replace the timing belt with an aftermarket timing gear kit!
Daniel
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